Ascender to use with RE chest roller?

[Extremeophile]

I was reading Chad's thread on the merits of handled ascenders. I've been wondering what upper ascender other people are using with the Rock Exotica / PMI chest roller in ropewalker systems. I believe that any of the Petzl or Black Diamond style ascenders would require you keep a hand on it so that it runs freely, but I haven't tried myself. When I got my RE chest roller, which replaced a Simmons, I was using the same CMI Ultrascender. This has a frame that seems to ride on top of the roller and feed resonably smoothly. However, I've had this ascender bind a couple times, it's large and heavy, and there seems to be friction from the rope passing over the cam. I recently got the Petzl Microscender and used this on a recent trip. Advantages are smaller, lighter, less friction on rope, rides very nicely on top of rollers. The main disadvantage seems to be the difficulty getting it on and off the rope, which requires 2 hands and is fiddly.

Anybody have any comments on either of these choices, or another better option?

http://www.cmi-gear.com/catalog/ascenders/large.asp
http://www.petzl.com/us/pro/verticality/rope-clamps/rope-clamps-hauling-and-lifting/microcender

Derek

[Chads93GT]

I have a 3rd option. Get rid of using the handled ascender/qas/whatever/ above the rocke exotica all together and buy a croll and install it just like a frogging croll. This gives you your 3rd attachment point and you can then climb hands free, no more bumping an ascender up the rope. I only use my QAS now for getting over lips, etc.

the petzl ascentions or my blackdiamond hand ascender (forget the name but its the one that levers on the hinges and bites harder on wet/muddy ropes) both bind up on my rock exotica double roller.

[Scott McCrea]

I just push my Petzl handled ascender up with my hand. I rest my hand on the top of the roller. Really, my hand just keeps it in place, no effort, the roller push it up.

[Cody JW]

I am an old timer and now use a petzl handled ascender but back in the day the spring loaded gibbs was popular if you want hands free operation. But gibbs are hard to get on and off compared to petzl or similar.

[Extremeophile]

I have a 3rd option. Get rid of using the handled ascender/qas/whatever/ above the rocke exotica all together and buy a croll and install it just like a frogging croll. This gives you your 3rd attachment point and you can then climb hands free, no more bumping an ascender up the rope. I only use my QAS now for getting over lips, etc.

the petzl ascentions or my blackdiamond hand ascender (forget the name but its the one that levers on the hinges and bites harder on wet/muddy ropes) both bind up on my rock exotica double roller.

That sounds like an interesting solution. Do you attach the top of the Croll to the bottom of the roller plate, or do you have a second chest harness that goes on under your roller harness?

[Cody JW]

I have seen people use Chads third option. I never used the set up but I am told you need to use a small bungee set up to attach the top of the croll to the bottom of your chest plate. I say chest plate because when I saw this they used a simmons on an alum. plate before the R.E. came out. These guys used them in Golondrinas with me and made it out in an impressive time, not a record but still good time. I can see merit in it , but for some reason I like to have the handled ascender up top.

[Chads93GT]

That sounds like an interesting solution. Do you attach the top of the Croll to the bottom of the roller plate, or do you have a second chest harness that goes on under your roller harness?

I put everything on like I am going to frog out of a pit; however, after I do that, I put on the foot stirrips and the chest roller. The frog croll strap that I have is built into my goliath harness so it doesnt interfere at all and its only there to keep the croll upright, It also facilitates something to keep my harness from falling around my ass, not that it ever does, but there is always that big if.

Not to name drop or anything but.............bill putnam uses the same setup.

[chh]

When I used a roller (Simmons) I also just held the jumar with my hand. Sometimes I could even get it to ride for a while.

Chad, what do you use for your foot and knee ascenders?. I imagine the most "modular" system would be adding a chest plate and foot and knee ascender on single bungee pulley system to the frog. Is this what you do? It makes sense, in a way, but you're carrying two systems around with you all the time. Doesn't that kind of suck? Do you carry a cowstail in addition to the one your QAS is on?

In the event of a rebelay, redirect, or knot do you just drop everything down to your frog and proceed from there or do you have a different sequence? I think it's an interesting solution, and I'm sure you'd smoke me up a free hanging drop in this rig, I'm just trying to imagine doing anything else quickly with this system. Including getting it on and off

[Chads93GT]

I have a croll/basic ropewalker, rock exotica and a cowstail. It wasnt till i talked to a friend who used to goto GA tech who mention that putnam and others in take also put their frogging croll on their roperwalker for a 3rd piont of contact to eliminate heel hangs, and to free up their hands for hands free climbing. it doesnt suck, nothing is better than being able to climb hands free, tandem, while shooting action photos or shooting video tape on the fly because i dont have to mess with a QAS on the rope. I use my cowstail as my QAS. If i ever do something where I feel I will need a QAS and a cowstail I will take both, but that is very rare. Not a lot of extremely technical stuff around here.

but its a double bungee ropewalker, typical ropewalker. just has a froggers croll incorporated into it.

[Chads93GT]

also, any rebelays i have ever done, i simply climb past them by putting the qas/cowstail past the rebelay, removing my roller and frog croll at once and switching to the new rope, taking a step or two then moving the foot ascenders past the rebelay then start climbing. while climbing I remove the qas and stow it away as im back on the frog croll as the 3rd point of contact. whenever I stop to rest I just stop and stand with locked knees, or if i want to sit I sit without haivng to move the hand ascender up so I dont lose momentum. I just do it. When I get close to needing the qas for a nasty lip or whatever i unclip it from my harness and get it ready.

You can move pretty quick when you dont have to stop climbing to fiddle with stuff.

but like I said not a lot of techincal stuff around here yet. a few deviations here and there that I have rigged. Only done a few rebelays in tag. I really enjoy the system.