Petzl Pantin use.......

[Chads93GT]

After climbing tandem out of Fantastic Pit on saturday with a gal who frogged with pantic, It got me wondering a few things. Do people use these for a single bungee ropewalker as to cut down on gear clutter and weight for a ropewalker? I noticed when she was using them she would constantly switch from frogging to frog walking out depending on rhythm, fatigue? whatever?

Just wondering.......

[Extremeophile]

I've been using a Pantin on my right foot and a Petzl Basic with single bungie for the left foot (at knee level). I've been using a biner through the hole at the base of the cam to prevent it from coming off the rope - which seems to happen a lot (much more than when frogging). I like that it's small, light, sits low on my foot (less interference with the Basic), is easy to self-start, and avoids the complexity of a double bungie. I don't like that it's on the side of the foot, and therfore puts some torque on my ankle. I've also found the stirrup portion of the small harness on the Pantin to loosen over time. I've adjusted it and sewn the webbing so this no longer happens.

Derek

[Billy]

I like the pantin for the longer frogging ascents. Yes, you can switch from double frogging to a mutated frog-walker system to shake it up (baby steps versus biggies). But I have as bad as knees as you do, and where it really helps me is the torque that occurs on my knee when frogging with a single large footloop (not the ankle torque from the pantin as described above), it kills my knee with that inward rotation. I can keep my knee oriented better PLUS (for everyone saying 'use a double footloop') when I come up against a wall I can use my footlooped leg to press against without kicking a leg out of a double footloop (trying to keep both feet in and push against the wall with one foot while ascending with the other is a pita for me). It gives me that added edge where I still don't need to switch yet to rope walker for the bigger ascents (at least in the US).

[chaz]

I love that about my Pantin! My setup is more of a frog-walker, so I can frog with both feet together( though one is in a single footloop to handled ascender and the other is on the rope via Pantin) "or" I can rope walk (alternate steps). It keeps me moving by using different muscles and technique rather than stopping when I get tired. I met a guy in Mexico 2 years ago that used the same setup to do Golindrinas.

[Carl Amundson]

I use my Pantin mostly for project caving.
Wet muddy project ropes have a hard time getting thru the Croll.
Having a Pantin on helps drag the rope thru the Croll and makes ascending much less strenuous.

I was having problems with the Pantin coming off at the wrong times, so I added a cam from a handled ascender.
This works great and now it only comes off when I want it to.

[Chads93GT]

makes me wonder why it never had the handle in the first place............

[NZcaver]

makes me wonder why it never had the handle in the first place............

It doesn't have the handle because you're supposed to be able to kick it off the rope without using your hands.

For what it's worth, I got one and found it to be a PITA falling off the rope all the time too. I know - it's my bad technique. My solution was to attach a short tab of 11/16 webbing and poke it through the hole to provide some resistance to the cam opening too easily. However I seldom use the Pantin, because I'm not doing many bigger pits on a regular basis. Actually right now I'm not doing any pits at all.

[Extremeophile]

When I use the Pantin for frogging I haven't had problems with the cam disengaging from the rope, other than when I want to (e.g. rebelays or slopes at the top of pits). As Chad originally suggested, it seemed like it might make a good foot ascender in a ropewalker system, but when I incorporated it into this system I found it popping off the rope every 5-10 feet. I first tried adjusting my technique, but had very little luck. I've gone to putting a biner through the hole. It took a little trial and error to find the right size biner to fit in the hole and keep the cam from binding. I've been using a Camp Nano, but I'm sure there are a lot of others that will work. I really like the replacement cam mod, but it seems you need to have the capability of placing a rivet... and some spare cams lying around.

[OpenTrackRacer]

I've been experimenting with a Pantin for about a year. My usual setup is a standard frog rig with a double loop foot strap. I've found the Pantin to be useful for a number of things... The rope feeds through very easily and is great for creating tension on the rope so it feeds through the Croll when you're near the bottom. It's also nice to be able to alternate legs on longer ascents. Last but not least, I've found it to be great when crossing obstacles and overhangs, or when climbing out at the top of a pitch. You might run out of travel with your handled ascender but you can still advance with the Pantin.

Mike

[Carl Amundson]

but it seems you need to have the capability of placing a rivet... and some spare cams lying around.

I used the cam and rivet from a damaged left handled ascender.
You have to be careful when you remove the flange from the back of the rivet. Be careful not to take too much off.
You will need to use a punch to flair out the end after the rivet and cam are on the Pantin.

[paul]

makes me wonder why it never had the handle in the first place............

It doesn't have the handle because you're supposed to be able to kick it off the rope without using your hands.

For what it's worth, I got one and found it to be a PITA falling off the rope all the time too. I know - it's my bad technique. My solution was to attach a short tab of 11/16 webbing and poke it through the hole to provide some resistance to the cam opening too easily. However I seldom use the Pantin, because I'm not doing many bigger pits on a regular basis. Actually right now I'm not doing any pits at all.

Absolutely correct about the intention to make the Pantin easy to get off, as intended by Petzl. Also that is why the spring is so weak on the cam.

As with everyone else, when I started using a Pantin it would come off accidentaly all the time. I always use a Frog setup with the Pantin on my right foot and the usual Frog-type footloop and jammer for my left leg. With good technique the Pantin hardly ever comes off accidentaly any more - it helps to imagine you're cycling backwards on a bicycle. I, and many of my caving pals, use a Pantin for all pitches no matter the length as it helps feed the rope through your Croll when starting off. It is often a great advantage to be able to remove the Pantin from the rope quicky when required by giving a sharp kick backwards with the foot it is on.

Also, in this area of the UK we have a load of old mineshafts left over from old lead mining (in this limestone area so many lead mines are a mixture of natural cave and mined out areas). The shafts are vertical and flush with ground level and having the Pantin on the rope greatly eases getting out of the top of the shaft as it provides an extra foothold.

Also I've use my Pantin as a spare jammer on my footlop with a karabiner through the attachment hole to prevent it accidentaly coming off - a bit like the old Clog ascenders that used to be available.

[chh]

The pantin really does work well once you get used to it. I also find it helpful for an extra foothold when necessary or I'll often just use it instead of my foot loop during changeovers, crossing knots etc. It's also good on slabby pitches where it's faster to just do the free moves with a self belay and slap the pantin on when necessary for a foothold or for a few feet of actually vertical rope. I use it climbing srt in trees for the same reason. When the branches become close enough to free climb I just kick off the pantin and keep going with a hitch or ascender self belay. A foot loop has the tendency to get snagged on twigs and such and you've got to take the time to stow it. You don't have these issues with the pantin.
For what it's worth, I would find it a pain to have to reach down and disengage the pantin like a regular ascender. Kind of defeats the purpose IMHO.
But a pantin is like any other specialized tool. Great at what it does, but if you don't need it, or slightly modify your behavior to incorporate it, it'll just get in the way.
Also FWIW, I always had better luck self starting on a muddy rope by just pinching it with my feet. Sometimes on stiff, muddy rope the pantin will kick off at the bottom because of how the rope acts. And then if you try to pinch it with your boots, the pantin can create a space that doesn't allow you to do this as well. This is just my experience though. I'm sure there is contradictory experience out there.