another annoying rappel question??

[puffadder]

I, like many..have a pretty long history of rappelling and climbing on trad routes..Having said this,since 1979 ,I have always had high regard for the rescue 8..Love the ability to lock off in midstream.the 8 can handle pretty much all diameters,etc..But ya know,the passion for the 8 kind of gave way to my next favourite device.The atc.I think the atc is superior in almost every way to the 8.has a better control factor.,can handle multi ropes,is reversible,can be used as a belay.cool huh? yes it is.The atc gave way a little to a device that really is not made for rappelling..the grigri.Drawbacks to the grigri are many.does not behave well with static rope,being the main culprit.Like the other whaletail designs,cam activated,lever controlled..may react slowly in mud,etc..Blah,blah,blah..nothing new here eh? Not..I have to be one of the last hold outs to the ''hype'' ..the rack.That was last Dec.It took alittle while.I really did not like,nor trust this rack.However..this is a variable friction,heat dissipating device.how cool is that? very.The rack is now my favourite..This is all leading up to something..I learned that control is best at the bottom bars.this seems to be the answer to better speed...never,ever back feed.can ''feel'' the inherent danger with that.would almost be like back clipping a draw.or hooking in wrong to a carabiner wrap.I have realized the demon in the rack is the top 2 bars.I noticed this during a recent drop into cemetary.Then it dawned on me.Something the sales guy said when i bought the rack..spacers.practice with the rack for awhile before using spacers.That time is here.so ..what the heck is used? I want to seperate the top 2 bars ..it is these that constantly need tending..so ..spacers.what do you guys use?

[NZcaver]

Previously: spacer between 1st and second bar

The forum search feature is your friend!

[Marduke]

The vast majority of people do not use spacers, and when they do it's usually only for long drops (>300ft) using long racks (18-24" frames). You simply learn to occasionally pull the top couple bars apart. You control your decent with ALL the bars, not just the bottom two. If you have a lot of friction, you may need to drop your bottom bar and spread the remaining 5 out further. This is where longer frames really help. You can use more bars and spread them out better for smoother control and a better ride.

However, the cheapest and simplest solution is to simply use hex nuts.

[ArCaver]

The vast majority of people do not use spacers, and when they do it's usually only for long drops (>300ft) using long racks (18-24" frames). You simply learn to occasionally pull the top couple bars apart. You control your decent with ALL the bars, not just the bottom two. If you have a lot of friction, you may need to drop your bottom bar and spread the remaining 5 out further. This is where longer frames really help. You can use more bars and spread them out better for smoother control and a better ride.

However, the cheapest and simplest solution is to simply use hex nuts.

Those poor hexes.

[gdstorrick]

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[chh]

What Gary said. Just go to the hardware store and pick something out. In my opinion using nuts, which for some reason seem to be a popular option, weigh the rack down more than is necessary. Alluminum tube stock, or PVC of the appropriate schedule, really any tubing that is burly enough not to be compressed by the force of the bars pressing together will work.

Muskrat, I'm sure with a 30 year trad carreer we can probably dispense with the usual warnings. However, I would suggest that you do a healthy number of long drops (cemetary doesn't count) without the spacers first to figure out the exact length of the spacers you want. I think the length of a spacer is more important than the material. Pay close attention to how you far you manipulate those top two bars and start with spacers that make the gap slightly smaller than what you would guess. Also, just like you can use that rescue 8 in a bunch of ways, it's important to learn all the ways you can vary friction with a rack in addition to just adding/dropping/manipulating bars. Carabiners, hyperbars, etc. A spacer will limit the range of a rack in a way, so make sure you can compensate for this when you get towards the bottom of the drop.

All that being said, I used spacers for a bit. I don't use them anymore. Not because they are inherently dangerous or anything like that. I just didn't see the need. 100% of the drops I've done with a rack were during the process of caving. I don't seek out long rappells for the sake of doing a long rappel. (On mountains I prefer to start at the bottom thank you very much ) Here in the eastern part of the US "long drops" seem to be in the 300-600 foot range. I don't see spacers as really being necessary for my body/gear weight. Not worth the fiddly limitations on the short drops if the rack is your primary device, if that makes sense.
Good luck.

[Bob Thrun]

Specialty spacers may help transfer some heat to the rack frame and that may be of some value on long drops, particularly if the bars are made from square stock or have flattened top/bottom surfaces like the old Gerry, CMI, or Speleoshoppe bars. This is more of a benefit with aluminum bars than with stainless bars.

Gerry bars were round. Holubar bars had flat sides.

I have pieces of tubing cut to be spacers, but I have never installed them.

Bob Thrun

[Chads93GT]

I have yet to use spacers and my deepest drop is 584. Don't see the need for them personally.

[gdstorrick]

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[Bob Thrun]

From the 1971 Holubar catalog:

[Amazingracer]

Spacers are a mixed bag. Some people love them. Others hate them. And then of course the those are stupid crowd.

Its personal preference really. I use one set on my regular size rack and two sets (between bars 1 & 2 and 2 & 3) on my 18" rack(7 bars). I like because i don't have to deal with the rope binding up when you rappel on old crusty rope, etc. And the 2 sets on the 18" rack make rappelling the long drops a breeze.

At Ga Tech all of our racks have one set of spacers. The beginners get a better handle on controlling the rack by only dealing with the bottom bars instead of having to use all the bars.

[Tim White]

muskrat1- before we get to far into this...what kind of rack do you have? A standard 6-bar? Or a micro-rack?

[puffadder]

I am not sure how you guys count bars.But this is 18'' and there is 1 round bar at the top,followed by 5 of the 1/2 bars.,so I assume count would be 6.However i have been describing this so far as w5 bars and i have to drop 1 to move.Count the round one;6.it is the bottom that has to go.I added spacers last sat.havent had much totime to experiment ..but yesterday ..at a nearby crag I found I like them.voila!! but it also showed something else I never would have realized without them..just simple rope manipulation/angle ..made a world of difference.I truly love the set up. total control.

[Marduke]

With an 18" rack, it's unusual to need spacers for anything under 300ft or so. Spreading them all the way apart should let you glide down rope with ease. However, dropping 1 bar on a 6 bar rack is very common.

Is your rack in the correct orientation to your body when loaded? (ie. looking at the end of the bars, open side of the rack away from your body)

[gdstorrick]

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