Labeling Bolts

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Re: Labeling Bolts

Postby Scott McCrea » Aug 18, 2010 4:04 pm

I don't think you should put your name on the label. Seems like you are taking responsibility for it.
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Re: Labeling Bolts

Postby NZcaver » Aug 18, 2010 4:36 pm

I think that's the idea. Personal responsibility is a wonderful thing. Of course it's also the personal responsibility of each person to check rigging and anchors every time before using them.
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Re: Labeling Bolts

Postby Extremeophile » Feb 24, 2012 1:05 am

I was using Mylar tags attached with a zip-tie to label bolts, but I've started using stainless dog tags attached with stainless wire. It's a bit of work, but I like the result. I even got a small bat stamp to stylize the labels. Time will tell if they get torn off. I also was trying to stamp a serial number onto the stainless hanger, but these are so hard that I think it dulls the stamps.


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Re: Labeling Bolts

Postby Extremeophile » Feb 24, 2012 1:14 am

The lighting on this one makes it a little easier to read:

FIXE TRIPLEX SS
12 X 75MM
2/4/2012
BRISTOL


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Re: Labeling Bolts

Postby BrianFrank » Feb 24, 2012 8:20 am

Extremeophile wrote:The lighting on this one makes it a little easier to read:
FIXE TRIPLEX SS
12 X 75MM
2/4/2012
BRISTOL

Great tag! If only every bolt was labeled like that.

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Re: Labeling Bolts

Postby nathanroser » Feb 24, 2012 11:33 am

Taking responsibility for a good bolt would look nice, but then down the road when you've got some rusty earring spinning around like whirlygig beetles it wouldn't look so hot.
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Re: Labeling Bolts

Postby BrianFrank » Feb 24, 2012 12:58 pm

muddyface wrote:Taking responsibility for a good bolt would look nice, but then down the road when you've got some rusty earring spinning around like whirlygig beetles it wouldn't look so hot.

I believe that taking responsibility for something you are installing, that people's lives will depend on, is just the right thing to do. Why could it not become the common protocol that is expected and that caving entities agree to start following that protocol (NSS, SCCI, Grottos.....).

Last time I was in Ellisons at the Warmup Pit I noticed that some relatively new SS hardware was stamped and dated by the Dogwood Grotto. I thought, what a great example!

Taking responsibility is something that is disappearing with each new generation.

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Re: Labeling Bolts

Postby cavemud2 » Feb 24, 2012 1:22 pm

This is a great topic. I know when I do drops with bolts i think alot of these same questions. Yeh i guess im guilty of not really checking them out. When i see a fairly shiny bolt im not to worried about it vs. the old bolts made out of A36 angle iron like i have seen on whitesides and some other places. IDK i guess there are better ways to check then just sending the biggest guy down first, and then saying "hell if it will hold him its gotta hold me".
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Re: Labeling Bolts

Postby Extremeophile » Feb 24, 2012 2:20 pm

I take full responsibility for the label. For everything else you're on your own.
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Re: Labeling Bolts

Postby NZcaver » Feb 24, 2012 4:22 pm

Extremeophile wrote:I take full responsibility for the label. For everything else you're on your own.

My thoughts exactly. He's not 'certifying' the bolt - just labeling it.
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Re: Labeling Bolts

Postby BrianFrank » Feb 24, 2012 4:47 pm

NZcaver wrote:
Extremeophile wrote:I take full responsibility for the label. For everything else you're on your own.

My thoughts exactly. He's not 'certifying' the bolt - just labeling it.

That all makes sense.
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Re: Labeling Bolts

Postby Scott McCrea » Feb 24, 2012 5:41 pm

NZcaver wrote:
Extremeophile wrote:I take full responsibility for the label. For everything else you're on your own.

My thoughts exactly. He's not 'certifying' the bolt - just labeling it.

Ultimately, if things went that far, that would be up to a jury to decide.
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Re: Labeling Bolts

Postby BrianFrank » Feb 24, 2012 6:10 pm

Scott McCrea wrote:
NZcaver wrote:
Extremeophile wrote:I take full responsibility for the label. For everything else you're on your own.

My thoughts exactly. He's not 'certifying' the bolt - just labeling it.

Ultimately, if things went that far, that would be up to a jury to decide.

I may have misstated what I wanted to say above....sorry. I meant that it would be good practice going forward for cavers to start taking responsibility to label/tag new bolts they install. Just simple info like mentioned in the previous post: BOLT TYPE ( FIXE TRIPLEX SS), BOLT SIZE (12x75MM), INSTALL DATE (1/4/2012). Of course if a bolt fails in the future, that is the fault of the user for not testing/checking it out.

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Re: Labeling Bolts

Postby tncaver » Feb 24, 2012 6:24 pm

Scott McCrea wrote:
NZcaver wrote:
Extremeophile wrote:I take full responsibility for the label. For everything else you're on your own.

My thoughts exactly. He's not 'certifying' the bolt - just labeling it.

Ultimately, if things went that far, that would be up to a jury to decide.


I guarantee you that if a lawyer or courts are involved in an accident and a bolt has someone's name on it, they are likely to be named
as a defendant in a lawsuit. Labeling bolts might be nice advertising for the person who placed the bolt, but if something goes wrong, it
could mean a lawsuit 30 years later. Something to think about. I for one believe anyone who uses an existing bolt is taking a chance and
should check it out as best they can. However, there is no guarantee a bolt will hold. But will a jury or judge and lawyer feel that way?
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Re: Labeling Bolts

Postby Extremeophile » Feb 24, 2012 6:59 pm

Any caver that would sue another caver for their own incompetence is hereby forbidden from using my anchors. By the same reasoning any landowner that lets someone enter their cave should expect to get sued. I prefer to do the right thing, and by havng a label and log of fixed anchors and ropes we can make better educated decisions in the future about rigging needs.
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