Ropewalker Ascender placement

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Ropewalker Ascender placement

Postby Chads93GT » Aug 17, 2010 5:09 pm

Over the weekend I met some new people in TAG and one of the older guys was telling me that my system would work better if I switched a couple things. Right now my basic is on my left knee and my croll is on my right foot. I always thought it strange that a left hand ascender would be on the right, and the right on the left. Anyway he told me how to switch them around so there is less bind and they will work smoothly.

I THINK................he said to put the basic on the right foot, and the croll on the left knee...... or maybe it was the croll on the left foot and the basic on the right knee............ Has anyone tried this?
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Re: Ropewalker Ascender placement

Postby Amazingracer » Aug 17, 2010 5:24 pm

Chads93GT wrote:I always thought it strange that a left hand ascender would be on the right, and the right on the left.


The Croll and basic arent left or right handed ascenders.

I use the setup that you have and its been fine. Some one told me to switch the croll to the left knee and the basic on the right foot. I tried this and it would constantly bind up. I immediately switched them back.
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Re: Ropewalker Ascender placement

Postby Scott McCrea » Aug 17, 2010 6:03 pm

Amazingracer wrote:The Croll and basic arent left or right handed ascenders.

Basically, the Croll is a left hand ascender with the handle cut off and the shell bent a bit. Same with the Basic and the right hand ascender.

Chad, I don't know if one way is better than the other. I use two Basic's on a non-traditional, single bungee RW. Anyway, only one way to find out. Let us know what you find out.
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Re: Ropewalker Ascender placement

Postby Chads93GT » Aug 17, 2010 6:24 pm

guess i will play arond in the next 6 weeks. im out of comission due to a knee injury so I will have some time to play around I guess. Ive been messing arouund with them in my living room as everything is just fresh out of the wash, but the basic seems to fit best on the long stirrip on the left leg.......... if i put it elsewhere it doesnt seem to fit right..........ugh.
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Re: Ropewalker Ascender placement

Postby reeffish1073 » Aug 17, 2010 8:14 pm

scott

would like to see a pic of your single bungee setup. am curious as to how it works. and to think this must be the setup for those big TAG pits, as i have never seen you use anything other than a texas system!
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Re: Ropewalker Ascender placement

Postby Chads93GT » Aug 17, 2010 8:23 pm

reeffish1073 wrote:scott

would like to see a pic of your single bungee setup. am curious as to how it works. and to think this must be the setup for those big TAG pits, as i have never seen you use anything other than a texas system!



Single bungee's require a bungee cord that runs from the back center of your waist harness, over your left shoulder and down to your left ascender at your knee. Your right foot ascender is simply a pantin style ascender, which usually consists of a gibbs and a special made ankle harness, or a croll in a special ankle harness, or a home made harness consisting of webbing wrapped around the foot and ankle. This requires no bungee, hence the single bungee. When you are on the ground you can remove the bungee (encased in tubular webbing) from your shoulder and let it hang by your side as there is no need for it to be under tension.

As for only texas, if you come to tag with a texas system you will wear yourself out in no time. A friend of mine made that mistake and tried to texas out of Cagles at 186'. it took him 50 minutes and he was completely shot after that. Imagine doing 186' worth of 1 arm pullups.
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Re: Ropewalker Ascender placement

Postby Scott McCrea » Aug 17, 2010 8:51 pm

Chads93GT wrote:Single bungee's require a bungee cord that runs from the back center of your waist harness, over your left shoulder and down to your left ascender at your knee. Your right foot ascender is simply a pantin style ascender, which usually consists of a gibbs and a special made ankle harness, or a croll in a special ankle harness, or a home made harness consisting of webbing wrapped around the foot and ankle. This requires no bungee, hence the single bungee. When you are on the ground you can remove the bungee (encased in tubular webbing) from your shoulder and let it hang by your side as there is no need for it to be under tension.

Um, sort of. There are many different ways to set up a single bungee. My bungee runs from my right knee ascender over my shoulder to the left side of my harness. I have a homemade harness for the Basic on my left foot that sits erect enough to slide up the rope without being pulled up.

As for only texas, if you come to tag with a texas system you will wear yourself out in no time. A friend of mine made that mistake and tried to texas out of Cagles at 186'. it took him 50 minutes and he was completely shot after that. Imagine doing 186' worth of 1 arm pullups.

My longest Texas system climb is 140', took about 20 min. Texas is all about technique, efficiency and gear optimization. But, anything over 100' is worth bringing a ropewalker for. A caver that is in good shape and very experienced with the system can boogie up some rope. I think it was Andy Porter that Texas-ed Fantastic many times.
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Re: Ropewalker Ascender placement

Postby NZcaver » Aug 17, 2010 9:17 pm

Scott McCrea wrote:
Amazingracer wrote:The Croll and basic arent left or right handed ascenders.

Basically, the Croll is a left hand ascender with the handle cut off and the shell bent a bit. Same with the Basic and the right hand ascender.

I know what you're saying, but technically the Croll is a right hand ascender. This is because Petzl designed it to attach to your seat harness via a delta or half-round maillon rapide and be operated with your right hand. Any other use not covered in the instructions is contraindicated. :shhh:

But back in the real world... :tonguecheek: I would say for a ropewalker setup Chad had it right the first time. My photos of the NSS Vertical Workshop at convention a couple of weeks ago clearly show the instructors teaching the double bungee system with a Croll on the right foot and a Basic floating by the left knee. Of course others have come up with their own variations, but that seems to be the basic standard.

Now that I have a shiny new chest roller to play Mitchell and/or ropewalker games with, I'm starting to pay more attention to these alternate non-frog system contraptions. :big grin:
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Re: Ropewalker Ascender placement

Postby Chads93GT » Aug 17, 2010 9:46 pm

I just talked to Chuck Henson, he was who told me about the alternate variation. I couldn't remember his name so I asked my buddy who introduced us and he sent me his email. His reponse was "the croll should be on the right knee. with your weight on, it should nest against your knee or just slightly above. the basic above your left foot over the front of your arch at 90 degrees to your foot with the cam turned away from your ankle. for long climbs with weight below you, configure a longer laynard using an extra link or super link using the correct number of links to maintain the 90 degrees."

Figuured I would pass it along.
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Re: Ropewalker Ascender placement

Postby NZcaver » Aug 17, 2010 11:17 pm

I remember Chuck from the NCRC weeklong this year.

I'm not sure what qualifies as how the system "should" be set up... but for what it's worth the right foot croll/left knee basic described earlier is the standard described on page 20 of the NSS Basic Vertical Training Student Manual, and also on page 149 of On Rope (1996 edition).

Bottom line, personal preference is a wonderful thing. Try it the other way, and see which you like best. :wink:
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Re: Ropewalker Ascender placement

Postby Amazingracer » Aug 18, 2010 8:50 am

NZcaver wrote:Bottom line, personal preference is a wonderful thing. Try it the other way, and see which you like best. :wink:


Yep. I think that's what its going to boil down to is different strokes for different folks.
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Re: Ropewalker Ascender placement

Postby tlong_geo » May 17, 2012 2:46 pm

Relative to single-bungee: when the book "On Rope" first came out, I used its ropewalker description to make my own. I ordered all the webbing and hardware from IMO and used sewing awl with braided polyester thread. I used 2" webbing for my right footloop, with a Croll mounted tightly to my instep, kinda like a giant Pantin. I had a Gibbs for a knee ascender, with a single bungee running up over my shoulder and attached to a little D-ring that I mounted on the back shoulder of my chest harness. Chest harness was 2" webbing, 1" shoulder straps, and a Simmons field roller mounted on the front. The way I sewed the roller to the 2" webbing made the webbing really stiff, like a roller plate. Used a second Gibbs sitting on top of the roller, attached to my seat harness. Once I stopped climbing, I remained almost perfectly upright. Traded away the roller/harness and cannibalized the rest; not much need for a ropewalker in PA. Worked a lot more smoothly than the double-bungee system and PMI double-roller I just bought.
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Re: Ropewalker Ascender placement

Postby gdstorrick » May 17, 2012 5:43 pm

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Last edited by gdstorrick on Jul 7, 2012 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ropewalker Ascender placement

Postby chh » May 17, 2012 6:32 pm

Scott McCrea wrote:
Chads93GT wrote:Single bungee's require a bungee cord that runs from the back center of your waist harness, over your left shoulder and down to your left ascender at your knee. Your right foot ascender is simply a pantin style ascender, which usually consists of a gibbs and a special made ankle harness, or a croll in a special ankle harness, or a home made harness consisting of webbing wrapped around the foot and ankle. This requires no bungee, hence the single bungee. When you are on the ground you can remove the bungee (encased in tubular webbing) from your shoulder and let it hang by your side as there is no need for it to be under tension.

Um, sort of. There are many different ways to set up a single bungee. My bungee runs from my right knee ascender over my shoulder to the left side of my harness. I have a homemade harness for the Basic on my left foot that sits erect enough to slide up the rope without being pulled up.

As for only texas, if you come to tag with a texas system you will wear yourself out in no time. A friend of mine made that mistake and tried to texas out of Cagles at 186'. it took him 50 minutes and he was completely shot after that. Imagine doing 186' worth of 1 arm pullups.

My longest Texas system climb is 140', took about 20 min. Texas is all about technique, efficiency and gear optimization. But, anything over 100' is worth bringing a ropewalker for. A caver that is in good shape and very experienced with the system can boogie up some rope. I think it was Andy Porter that Texas-ed Fantastic many times.


I use a Texas style system very frequently and log a lot of rope with it. I don't usually go more than 80 feet at a time, but I might do that many times in a day. If you are doing one arm pullups you are doing it wrong.
But FWIW here's my break down:
0-100" Texas or Frog depending on what I have with me.
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Your words of caution are no match for my disaster style!
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