Chest roller position.

[DeanWiseman]

Hey everyone,

I've been having some trouble as of late with back fatigue/pain during climbs with my Mitchell system. I had been trying to get regular on-rope time in advance of a trip to Yosemite and El Capitan, but alas, what I thought was a "getting-used-to-it" issue has only seemed to linger on... so I elected to not attempt a rope climb of El Cap. Looking to the future, I'd like to do a rope climb at Bridge Day, not to mention Whitesides.

So here's my question: Is it possible that I'm running my rollers too high on my chest? I had been running them above the breast line, on the upper third of my sternum. I noticed at Yosemite that a lot of people position them several inches lower, below the breast line... so I'm looking for opinions.


Thanks!


-Dean

[Chads93GT]

The higher the chest roller on your chest, the further it is from your waist, therefore you have to have greater core strength to keep your back straight. If the chest roller is lower it will take strain off of the lower back, but cause you to tilt a little further back.

Do you workout regularly and train your core muscles? A strong abdominal and lower back will help greatly. The more core strength you have, the more overall body strength you have. It's something to think about it.

Hit the gym or lower the roller. Personally, I would recommend working out, AND lowering the roller ;)

[Scott McCrea]

I doubt your roller is too high. 97% of the ropewalking cavers I have seen run them too low. The higher and closer to your chest the roller is, the closer your center of gravity is to the rope, which requires less energy to move up the rope. Moving the roller down will give you a little back support but your efficiency will suffer.

-Having the roller harness too low can restrict breathing by squeezing the rib cage.
-Having the roller harness too high can cut the circulation off in the armpits.
-The chest roller harness should be uncomfortably tight when not on rope.
-Mounting a pulley, for a double-bungee system, on your roller plate will pull down on it, decreasing efficiency.

[Marduke]

A friend of mine recently had a similar issue with her ropewalker setup (but not her Mitchell, with the same roller). She originally had the roller about 3 inches above the nipple line and had back pain with the ropewalker. She lowered the plate to the nipple line and the back pain went away. The cords lengths for the ropewalker and Mitchell then had to be shortened.

If it helps, she is around 5'2"

[reeffish1073]

I have found that self starting at the bottom and having to pull slack sometimes tweeks my back a little. I wear mine about an inch or two above the nipple line. Like Scott said, uncomfortable when not on rope. Lower is not as effective. I have also found that QAS length also plays a bit into this Too long and you slump down when at rest, like your chest roller is lower down on your body. Too short a QAS and you also loose efficiency. I also have a non-locking beiner on the left side shoulder strap by the plate. At times i hook this in to the QAS line when resting, or crossing lips. This helps at times when the chest roller needs to come off to help keep me a bit more up right and stable.

Good Luck and Good Climbing!

[gdstorrick]

Post deleted.

[chh]

Sounds like you've got some miles behind you, so I guess I can only say that for me I always liked getting my roller as high as possible without discomfort in the pits. This usually ended up somewhere around 2 inches above nipple line.
Have you changed anything else about your rig? Maybe where a bungee is attached or anything else? I find that most of the time when my back is hurting it's usually because of something I'm not doing right with my legs. Sometimes worn out bungees can shorten your stroke, hence making more strokes per climb necessary, and on long ones I imagine this might be enough to cause more back fatigue than what you would perceive of as "normal".
Also, this is my personal experience, but if you've had some time away from the system and are using it again I tend to relax a little TOO much into the chest roller when my legs get tired. This causes a slight curvature of the spine in the lower back and also causes you to kick a little more "out" than "down". Again, not using your legs right causes this I think.
Anyway, good luck.

[NZcaver]

Have you changed anything else about your rig? Maybe where a bungee is attached or anything else? I find that most of the time when my back is hurting it's usually because of something I'm not doing right with my legs. Sometimes worn out bungees can shorten your stroke, hence making more strokes per climb necessary, and on long ones I imagine this might be enough to cause more back fatigue than what you would perceive of as "normal".

A bungee? I didn't think that was part of a Mitchell System. Or am I missing something?

Interesting topic. I recently picked up a chest roller, and I'm planning to mess around with setting up a Mitchell or possibly a ropewalker system when time permits.

[Marduke]

Interesting topic. I recently picked up a chest roller, and I'm planning to mess around with setting up a Mitchell or possibly a ropewalker system when time permits.

How about both?

I have a single bungee rope walker that's kinda sorta a single bungee assisted Mitchell. PMI double roller with short bungee going from plate to left knee ascender (CMI small ultrascender), and CMI right foot ascender. In all of about 30 seconds you can slap a footloop onto a 2nd QAS and run it through the 2nd roller for a bungee assisted Mitchell. Best of both worlds.

The CMI foot ascender is killer on lips, since it will NOT snag.

[Chads93GT]

I'm still going with the "weak core muscles" theory ;) start training and the pain shall go away.

[Tim White]

I just consulted an expert, I asked Berta... "Honey, where do we place our chest rollers?" Like I don't know, but wanted to be sure before I posted.

We both place our chest plate well ABOVE nipple line. A good rule of thumb is half way between nipple line and the lower end of the collar bone.

I also agree with Scott “97% of the ropewalking cavers I have seen run them too low.” And with Chads93GT “The more core strength you have, the more overall body strength you have.”

[chh]

Have you changed anything else about your rig? Maybe where a bungee is attached or anything else? I find that most of the time when my back is hurting it's usually because of something I'm not doing right with my legs. Sometimes worn out bungees can shorten your stroke, hence making more strokes per climb necessary, and on long ones I imagine this might be enough to cause more back fatigue than what you would perceive of as "normal".

A bungee? I didn't think that was part of a Mitchell System. Or am I missing something?

Interesting topic. I recently picked up a chest roller, and I'm planning to mess around with setting up a Mitchell or possibly a ropewalker system when time permits.

My bad. I read "mitchell", but my brain was all ..."ROPEWALKER!"

[Tlaloc]

If you run the chest box high as some posters recommend, you will be pushing the upper ascender way up high near the highest possible extension for this arm. This will be very tiring for this arm. The lower you can put it the easier it will be for this arm. Also it is easier to manipulate the upper ascender for attaching / detaching, etc. if it is lower. I have never seen anyone rig a Mitchell system with the box up near the top of your sternum as you describe. Mine is about even with the bottom of my sternum. This allows you to take an adequate step with your lower ascender and a reasonable step with the upper ascender without pushing the upper ascender up too high. Keep the chest band of your chest harness tight so you won't be leaning back too far.

[Tim White]

Sorry to disagree with Tlaloc, but Bill Cuddington (i.e. Father of US Vertical Caving) has chest roller high and he uses the Mitchell System almost 100% of the time now. I don't understand "If you run the chest box high as some posters recommend, you will be pushing the upper ascender way up high near the highest possible extension for this arm." I have my Mitchell chest roller high and I only lift my upper asccender/hand about head high and that gives me a large enough step. I could NEVER take a step large enough to extend my to it's limit.

Dean, try a few of the ideas and see for yourself.

[Cody JW]

I think high is good , but I have found if you are thick chested lower is better for me.If you are thick you are not going to be the most efficient thing on rope anyway.Too high causes me to slump down when climbing putting pressure on armpits and lower back . When I lowered it lower than skinny guys ,it was MUCH more comfortable for me.I am not going to beat anybody up a rope being 5 foot 9 and 220 lbs, I just try to be comfortable.I use a wide backing to my chest harness that is padded.I have found from other discussions on this forum that what works for most people may not work best for thick guys. It depends on your frame.