disappearing thread on tandem SRT

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Re: disappearing thread on tandem SRT

Postby Cody JW » Jul 18, 2010 8:25 pm

I have tandem frogged and found that if I am frogging and on top, the rope will rub hard on my upper leg on the inside as soon as the bottom climber got on.This created lots of friction on the upstep on each cycle.The ropewalkers did not have the problem.I tried it again on bottom and it was much better, maybe not for the guy on top.Also I preferred to be on bottom because I was slower than the ropewalkers.I tried puttin the rope on my side instead of between my legs and it rubbed the side of my upper leg on the outside, this made climbing very slow due to the increased friction. We practiced this above ground and found it out. Not sure why this happened.The ropewalker above me did not complain of lots of bounce, even though I was heavier.
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Re: disappearing thread on tandem SRT

Postby Scott McCrea » Jul 18, 2010 8:34 pm

I believe the video shows two people (BASE jumpers, film crew, adventure tourists?) being lowered into Golindrinas. They winch BASE jumpers out, or used to, when it was allowed.

Froggers with good technique and a properly fitted system don't bounce all that much.

Tandem climbers that are really good and have lots of experience climbing with their partner (the Cuddington's, Tim and Berta) can use each others bounce-rebound to micro-launch them up the rope with each step. When the two climbers are perfectly in-step, it is an amazing thing to watch.
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Re: disappearing thread on tandem SRT

Postby speleo » Jul 18, 2010 9:11 pm

I used to climb tandem a lot with one of my caving friends on the big TAG pits. We both climbed with Mitchell systems back then. When we did Golondrinas I was on top and had to change over to the pig tail about 1,000 feet off the bottom. I had never done a changeover of any type at that time and it was a bit sobering to do it for the first time there. Most of the drops we did had fairly easy lips and I never switched to a pig tail again. I cannot imagine anybody doing an undercut lip like in War Eagle without a pig tail if they climbing tandem.
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Re: disappearing thread on tandem SRT

Postby Cody JW » Jul 19, 2010 8:28 pm

I have only tandem climbed a few times, I got lucky at Golondrinas because we had 7 in our group and I volunteered to go up solo.I am of the belief to tandem when there is a legit need like people getting cold waiting on bottom and not put any unecessary stress on rigging or the rub action at the lip (padded or not).It is good to practice above ground so you all understand the nuances of it, just like how I found out about the rubbing when frogging on top.
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Re: disappearing thread on tandem SRT

Postby Marduke » Jul 19, 2010 8:38 pm

Well, I am of the opinion to only tandem when you have an ideal rigging setup, such as a tensionless hitch and the rope isn't going over a particularly sharp lip and all rub points are well padded.
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Re: disappearing thread on tandem SRT

Postby Tim White » Jul 20, 2010 7:54 am

Marduke wrote:Well, I am of the opinion to only tandem when you have an ideal rigging setup, such as a tensionless hitch and the rope isn't going over a particularly sharp lip and all rub points are well padded.


I want this type of ideal rigging setup, tandem or not. :tonguecheek: :big grin:
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Re: disappearing thread on tandem SRT

Postby LukeM » Jul 20, 2010 8:07 am

Cody JW wrote:I have tandem frogged and found that if I am frogging and on top, the rope will rub hard on my upper leg on the inside as soon as the bottom climber got on.This created lots of friction on the upstep on each cycle.The ropewalkers did not have the problem.I tried it again on bottom and it was much better, maybe not for the guy on top.Also I preferred to be on bottom because I was slower than the ropewalkers.I tried puttin the rope on my side instead of between my legs and it rubbed the side of my upper leg on the outside, this made climbing very slow due to the increased friction. We practiced this above ground and found it out. Not sure why this happened.The ropewalker above me did not complain of lots of bounce, even though I was heavier.


I have definitely experienced said friction while frogging. On a tandem climb out of Surprise Pit I was on top and by the time I reached the lip I had worn a big hole through the crotch of a pair of heavy duty Carhart pants. Definitely disconcerting and needless to say I was glad it was just the pants that were damaged! :yikes: If anyone has tips on how to avoid this predicament I'd be glad to hear them.
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Re: disappearing thread on tandem SRT

Postby NZcaver » Jul 20, 2010 1:04 pm

LukeM wrote:I have definitely experienced said friction while frogging. On a tandem climb out of Surprise Pit I was on top and by the time I reached the lip I had worn a big hole through the crotch of a pair of heavy duty Carhart pants. Definitely disconcerting and needless to say I was glad it was just the pants that were damaged! :yikes: If anyone has tips on how to avoid this predicament I'd be glad to hear them.

A new device to add to the vertical caver vocabulary - the groin roller?? :yikes: :tonguecheek: :laughing:
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Re: disappearing thread on tandem SRT

Postby ek » Jul 20, 2010 1:29 pm

LukeM wrote:I have definitely experienced said friction while frogging. On a tandem climb out of Surprise Pit I was on top and by the time I reached the lip I had worn a big hole through the crotch of a pair of heavy duty Carhart pants. Definitely disconcerting and needless to say I was glad it was just the pants that were damaged! :yikes: If anyone has tips on how to avoid this predicament I'd be glad to hear them.

I think you know everything I do about tandem climbing, since we've done about the same amount of tandem climbing in the same places...but in case this helps, here are two ways of reducing the degree to which the rope attacks your crotch:
  1. Use a foot ascender, such as a Petzl Pantin.
  2. Hook a foot behind the rope while standing up.
Both of these techniques serve to hold the foot farther out so it's not so painful. You may recall that I used the foot ascender, while Ben hooked a foot behind the rope. Both techniques also contribute to frogging form, since they both help to hold you upright...more upright than you'd usually be able to hold yourself, without a bottom climber.
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Re: disappearing thread on tandem SRT

Postby LukeM » Jul 20, 2010 3:24 pm

ek wrote:I think you know everything I do about tandem climbing, since we've done about the same amount of tandem climbing in the same places...but in case this helps, here are two ways of reducing the degree to which the rope attacks your crotch:
  1. Use a foot ascender, such as a Petzl Pantin.
  2. Hook a foot behind the rope while standing up.
Both of these techniques serve to hold the foot farther out so it's not so painful. You may recall that I used the foot ascender, while Ben hooked a foot behind the rope. Both techniques also contribute to frogging form, since they both help to hold you upright...more upright than you'd usually be able to hold yourself, without a bottom climber.


Yeah, I don't think the Pantin is really my thing. I've given it a shot, and didn't like it much. As for hooking a foot behind the rope that's something I'll have to try out some more and try to perfect. It may have just been the particular clothing and frogging form I had that day as I didn't experience this issue when tandem climbing elsewhere. Or...maybe there's room in the market for a groin roller as NZ suggests. :laughing:
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Re: disappearing thread on tandem SRT

Postby ek » Jul 20, 2010 4:08 pm

Or maybe your bottom climber weighed less the time it didn't hurt as much... :shrug:
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Re: disappearing thread on tandem SRT

Postby BrianC » Jul 20, 2010 4:12 pm

http://nsscavers.ning.com/xn/detail/1981829:Video:110124?xg_source=activityIn the middle of this vid , Jon and Bob rappell on the same rope with the top (Bob) using 24" rack, and bottom (Jon) standard rack.
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Re: disappearing thread on tandem SRT

Postby fuzzy-hair-man » Jul 21, 2010 4:31 am

LukeM wrote: Or...maybe there's room in the market for a groin roller as NZ suggests. :laughing:


Just make sure you don't get anything caught in it! :yikes:
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Re: disappearing thread on tandem SRT

Postby gdstorrick » Jul 21, 2010 7:32 am

Post deleted.
Last edited by gdstorrick on Jul 10, 2012 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: disappearing thread on tandem SRT

Postby sherppa » Jul 21, 2010 7:55 pm

neghafi wrote:I'd cut a video clip from the video and asked my question (in Persian language :shhh: )

wait... it seems to me to be Golondrina´s pit.. isn´t? :shrug:
edit: upss... sorry, didn´t see there are 2 pages in this topic :oops:
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