heightec-PMI Compact & Twist Ascenders

[Dwight Livingston]

Anyone using the heightec-PMI Compact & Twist Ascenders in a frog system? If nothing else, they are a lot cheaper than Petzl. Any comment? Do the claims of better performace compared to sharp toothed cams bear out in use?

Thanks

Dwight

[NZcaver]

I haven't used the devices you mention, so I checked them out on line. Unless I'm missing something, they don't appear to be "much cheaper than Petzl."

The Croll currently retails for around $57, and the PMI version (the Twist) at $59. The Basic runs $55, and the PMI Compact $59. Similar ballpark for price, but a little difference in size, weight, ergonomics and tooth design. Personally I'm quite happy with my Petzl ascenders, but given the chance I'd still try these out to see how they feel.

Ah, the Croll. It seems like only yesterday they were selling for $40...

[Dwight Livingston]

You're right. For some reason I had a higher price in mind for a Croll and I didn't check. I'd still be interested to hear from anyone who's used the PMI ascenders in a frog.

[ek]

Here's a question about these ascenders that's been floating in the back of my mind.

I've heard people say that these ascenders are easier on ropes than the Petzl ascenders with the downward-angled teeth...though I've never heard anyone present evidence that this is so, or even explain why they think so. Since eccentric cam ascenders use their teeth only to grab, and not to hold, it stands to reason that the more aggressively an ascender grabs, the least it slips while grabbing, and the least it abrades or tears the sheath of the rope. While counterintuitive, this is a reason to think Petzl ascenders are easier on ropes than Hightec-PMI, CMI, and any other ascenders with straight rather than angled teeth.

Am I wrong?

[SDcaver]

I recently switched from a Petzl Croll to the PMI Twist. I love it. I never liked Petzl ascenders due to them having teeth that any shark would be proud of. In function, I have found that tasks such as changeovers and downclimbing to be much easier since my ascenders ( I use a CMI for upper) are not death-gripped onto the rope. I have witnessed a Petzl Croll doing damage to the sheath of a rope while soemone was downclimbing. They thumbed their croll and dropped down, as they did there was this aweful noise and the rope sheath bore an ugly scar. It was very tuffed for at least 6 inches. I have seen other examples of the same thing but not as dramatic.

[Cody JW]

I have used Petzl for years and never had a problem.I have some crolls that are 20 years old and the sharp teeth have never wore down, I did have to replace cams on some old CMI ascenders after a short time, I will say CMI replaced and shipped for free.I also had teeth wear down quick on gibbs, but not yet on petzl .Never seen the PMIs.I figured no body knows the frog better than the euros so I stuck with petzl.

[gdstorrick]

Post deleted.

[NZcaver]

I usually use something other than the Frog

Wait... what? There is something other than the Frog??

[Cody JW]

I usually use something other than the Frog

Wait... what? There is something other than the Frog??

I have both frog and ropewalker and I am top heavy and still use the frog most of the time,I find the ropewalker bulky ,heavy to carry and complex.I only use it on big drops.My friends use ropewalkers for anything, I mean 30 foot drops and multiple short in cave drops.My analogy is a ropewalker is like a drag racer, very fast in one direction and best on long straight forward drops.Where I think the frog is best in multiple situations, wall drops ,tight spots, overhung lips, multiple in cave drops because it packs lighter.I also do not like the idea of getting muddy water in my roller.But , I live in Indiana where we have lots of 50-100 foot drops.I always take my frog to TAG also.

[ek]

Have you tried a Mitchell?

I am not personally proficient with the Mitchell system (I've used one a couple of times in practice environments, and would want to again before trying it in a cave...I'm happy with my frog system). But my understanding is that the Mitchell system, like a ropewalker, is often better than the frog for top-heavy cavers. Furthermore, the Mitchell is simpler, lighter, and less bulky than a ropewalker, is suitable for crossing rebelays and other such maneuvers, and can be converted to a Texas system when it is necessary to lean back from the rope.

[NZcaver]

My fault. I guess I shouldn't have cracked that old joke and had it turn into a big discussion about top-heavy froggers (which I guess includes me).

If you want to continue this line of discussion, start a new topic or add to one of our recent topic like this one.

[Tim White]

I recently switched from a Petzl Croll to the PMI Twist. I love it. ...

I have to agree with Marc.
I too switched from a Petzl Croll to the heightec-PMI Twist for my rope access kit. MUCH easier to down climb and change-over. AxcessRescue (the rope access company that I train for) is going to add the Twist to all of our new rope access kits that we use for training.

As for caving, I'm going to change out my Croll for the Twist in my frog. I'll just put the Croll in the pile of 5 other Crolls that will get used for my rope walkers.

Disclaimer: Berta is a PMI Ambassador (sponsored athlete). My support of any PMI product is my own opinion.

[hank moon]

re: sharp Petzl teeth damaging rope - this can happen on downclimbing, but only if done incorrectly. Correct d/c technique avoids rope damage. Most folks lack good d/c technique. I don't know how sharp, downward slanting teeth could damage rope on upclimbs.

re: blunter teeth being generally preferable - well, ok, preference is preference...but with every advantage comes a disadvantage, y'know. Generally speaking, the dull-tooth ascenders don't hold as well in muddy or icy conditions. Since my upclimb : downclimb ratio (in feet) is about 100 : 1 AND I have good d/c technique, I'll stick with the stickier option.