Are fixed ropes common?

[tncaver]

Any other kind of rope should NOT be trusted in a cave. Ropes made of
cotton, hemp or any other natural fiber can deteriorate at a rapid rate whether in use or not in a damp cave environment.

How about fixed ropes of other synthetic materials, like polyester?

Yes, ek, I should have said "any other kind of natural fiber rope should NOT be trusted in a cave. Polyester is
probably ok but can absorb a lot of water.

[tncaver]

Any other kind of rope should NOT be trusted in a cave. Ropes made of
cotton, hemp or any other natural fiber can deteriorate at a rapid rate whether in use or not in a damp cave environment.

How about fixed ropes of other synthetic materials, like polyester?

Yes, ek, I should have said "any other kind of natural fiber rope should NOT be trusted in a cave. Polyester is
probably ok but can absorb a lot of water. However, I do NOT recommend using any kind of polypropalene
ski rope. They are notorious for sudden failure and at much less stress than a similar diameter nylon rope.

[ek]

Polyester is probably ok but can absorb a lot of water.

Do you mean it can withstand a lot of water? Polyester, unlike nylon, absorbs almost no water and had almost no change in strength and handling when wet.

[tncaver]

Polyester is probably ok but can absorb a lot of water.

Do you mean it can withstand a lot of water? Polyester, unlike nylon, absorbs almost no water and had almost no change in strength and handling when wet.

I think you are right ek. Polyester rope does not hold water. I have had polyester webbing that seemed to absorb
water and was difficult to slide through buckles. I don't know if it was because of swelling or due to the weave,
but it was extremely difficult to slide through a buckle. Could be the friction increased when it got wet.
I had to stop using that webbing.
A lot of cavers used to use polyester pants because they did not absorb water.

[ek]

I think polyester webbing tends to be harder and less supple than nylon webbing. That squares with the feel of Petzl harness webbing vs. webbing on other brands of harnesses.

I still wear polyester pants caving, when I'm not wearing a cave suit.

[Ralph E. Powers]

Dunno if this has already been mentioned... but one of the hazards of fixed ropes is on a "down" rope the last person(s) up (enroute out of the cave) need to haul up the rope and coil it at a convenient spot so that it doesn't sway. One cave I know of had fixed ropes and they were generously placed by another caver at his expense so that people could at least continue exploration or at least tour the cave itself. Problem was the folks that visited got lazy or didn't think about it and left the ropes hanging.
Come back to find that at certain spots the rope was frayed badly due to it's slight swinging motion over a long period of time on a rub spot. So for the ropes going down into the cave they need to be coiled up and put where they'll be out of drips as well.
One other problem is pack-rats (where available) would love you to death for the free nesting material provided by chewing here and there on the nice salty ropes (left by caver sweat).

Otherwise depending upon the cave and the number of people that know about it. Fixed ropes are alright. It's usually an entrance rope that needs to be brought in should that be the case. Or for the first drop past a horizontal entrance.

Fixed ropes do need to be treated with caution... especially those that go UP to a high lead. That can't be coiled up and must be left hanging for access. If possible though I know it's a (caver) sin a bolted route leading up to the high lead should be in place so that if a fixed rope is left for a long period of time a safety for the first climber can be used with dynamic rope on a lead climb along the bolts/hangers while ascending the rope to test it's strength.

[ek]

Dunno if this has already been mentioned... but one of the hazards of fixed ropes is on a "down" rope the last person(s) up (enroute out of the cave) need to haul up the rope and coil it at a convenient spot so that it doesn't sway. One cave I know of had fixed ropes and they were generously placed by another caver at his expense so that people could at least continue exploration or at least tour the cave itself. Problem was the folks that visited got lazy or didn't think about it and left the ropes hanging.
Come back to find that at certain spots the rope was frayed badly due to it's slight swinging motion over a long period of time on a rub spot. So for the ropes going down into the cave they need to be coiled up and put where they'll be out of drips as well.

Why not just leave a fixed rope pad too?

[tncaver]

ek,
I like the way you think.

[wyandottecaver]

It does seem that there are 2 schools of practice with regards to fixed ropes.

1) I'll leave my cheapest most worn rope since it is being "donated" and (in my experiance) many fixed ropes are in remote places rarely visited. This results in the "deathrope" situation where you come upon this dubious looking 9mm (or goldline) rope years later and encourage the lightest person to go first!

2) I'll leave my legacy, bomproof tied tensionless anchors or huge honkin stainless hardware if necessary, new rope sometimes up to 12mm with rope pads and rebelays if needed (or desired).

I have left 2 fixed ropes. both of the number 2 variety since I'm chicken and might want to or have to climb them again someday.

[ian mckenzie]

Mr. Powers is right; proper way to handle a fixed rope is to coil it at the head of the pitch when you're done. It does no harm (assuming everyone is out of the cave) and might save abrasion if there's seasonal water on the pitch. Of course, you couldn't do that with a rebelayed rope, but in that case there shouldn't be any abrasion risk anyway.

Oh, and as for packrats chewing the rope - in my experience this seems to be a risk only for new clean ropes as the old muddy ones aren't very attractive nesting material.