Using the Hyperbar during a rappel

[copelandcaver7]

I had a question regarding rappelling using my hyper bar. I have a smc 6 bar rack with hollow Stainless still bars and a hyper bar. Is it okay to rappel with the hyper bar if you have all hollow bars or should your 5th and 6th bar be a solid bar? Thanks for the info in advance.

[NZcaver]

Hollow bars should be fine. Just try to avoid using one of those stainless bars with the U-shaped cross-section as the LOWEST bar on your hyper-bar rack. The edge of those bars can be a little rough on the rope as it curls around on it's way up to the hyper-bar.

Clear as mud?

[copelandcaver7]

But all my bars are Hollow, do you think I should get some solid bars or do you think the Hollow won't hurt the rope?

[Scott McCrea]

Hollow bars are fine. Almost all stainless bars are round/hollow or U shaped. Aluminum bars are usually round and solid. Any combination of those will work fine. NZ has a point about how the U shaped bar may be a little rough, but... Why would you want to rappel with the hyperbar if you have 6 bars?

[Mark620]

I weigh 200 lbs and have never needed over 5 bars....so far...

[NZcaver]

Hollow bars are fine. Almost all stainless bars are round/hollow or U shaped. Aluminum bars are usually round and solid. Any combination of those will work fine. NZ has a point about how the U shaped bar may be a little rough, but... Why would you want to rappel with the hyperbar if you have 6 bars?

One possible reason for using 6 bars plus hyperbar right off the top of my head - rappelling on a small diameter rope.
Remember, not everyone uses 11mm rope for SRT. Some use 10mm, 9mm, 8mm... Plus one might also choose to use that hyperbar without employing all 6 (or however many) regular bars. I've seen a 2 or 3 bar plus hyperbar combo work well on short drops, especially when faced with trying to descend a really crusty 11mm rope.

[copelandcaver7]

What I like to do is use 4 bars plus the hyperbar, I feel like I have more control that way. But I have stainless U shaped bars.

[Dane]

The next time you are rappelling, stop and look at how the rope is coming off the lowest bar it is on going to your hyper-bar - if it is coming off the radius of the bar, which is my guess, you should be fine.
If NZ is correct and it is coming across the edge of that lowest used bar, it may be wise to replace that u-shaped bar with a round bar.
U-shaped SS bars are lighter, and probably do not get as hot as solid bars would, but I don't believe I have ever seen a pre-configured rack w/ a hyper-bar use u-shaped bars, and I am sure this is at least one of the reasons why.
Keep in mind that if you change to aluminum and/or increase the diameter of the bar, this will increase the friction and slow down your ride.
Not a bad thing - just something else to consider.

[Scott McCrea]

What I like to do is use 4 bars plus the hyperbar, I feel like I have more control that way. But I have stainless U shaped bars.

Nothing wrong with doing that. But, a micro-rack would do the same thing, while saving a lot of weight and space. I 'spose you could call your setup a "Macro-rack."

[Randyrn]

I use 9mm rope most of the time, even on drops like Fantastic Pit. I'm a whopping 165 pounds, and even with all 6 bars engaged, I'm often speeding along a little too easily for my tastes. Six plus a hyperbar is a super combo for me very frequently. If that's too much friction, then 5 plus a hyperbar is often perfect, allowing for total two-finger control of my descent. I did some experimenting in Fantastic Pit not long ago with the French Wrap while on 9mm rope. It was a great time!

[Dane]

Hey Randy.
I had wondered about that very thing - how much versatility a hyper-bar would add.
I'm generally on Pit rope, and I probably have 70 lbs on you. I almost always use all 6 bars and have always had a nice controllable ride, but that also means that I am at or near the limit of the rack, other than using my brake hand. I would certainly have to take it very slow and easy on a 9mm rope.
It may be time to go beyond wondering and start doing some experimenting.
It would seem that a larger diameter bar top and bottom, plus the hyper-bar itself, should give me the variability I am looking for.
What do you think?
Oh, and thanks for the post.

[fuzzy-hair-man]

It would seem that a larger diameter bar top and bottom, plus the hyper-bar itself, should give me the variability I am looking for.
What do you think?
Oh, and thanks for the post.[/color]

If you look on Gary Storrick's website(look for Gary's Mega Rack) you'll find that the second bar on your rack does more work and therefore gets hotter than the first, as for the bottom bar it normally wouldn't be doing much at all, but when you have the hyperbar engaged it would be doing some more work so a thicker bar may help somewhat.

[Dane]

Thanks FHM - very interesting website.
I probably should have mentioned that I currently have SS u-shaped bars, hence the reasoning for changing the bottom bar if I add the hyper-bar - which I guess gets us back to where this all started!
And I hope I gave an answer to Scott's question - why add a hyper-bar to a 6-bar rack - I'm OK now, but would like to have the extra friction and/or configurations available to me. Hopefully I won't get any heavier, but some ropes are faster than others, and I have never rappelled on anything less than 10mm, so.....
As to the configuration, you are right of course - I think I saw something indicating that 40% of the friction comes from the 1st and 2nd bar.
So now, the first bar will be round because of the hyper-bar, the 2nd bar does most of the work so a larger diameter bar could be helpful; a hyper-bar dictates that your bottom bar should be round, but to get to the most bang for your buck, you should probably make at least the last two bars round.....sounds like I just need to get whole new rack!
As always, you guys are a cornucopia of information - thank you all for being here!
I'll try to digest all of this and let you know where it leads me.

[chh]

Dane,

I also have a SS U-bar rack, sans hyperbar. I could see why you would want the bottom, or possibly even the bottom 2 bars rounded with a hyperbar to have the most versatility, but I think U-bars would work just fine, especially if you were only doing it now and again. I've never done it though, so take that with a grain of salt. I usually use 10 or 11mm rope and can't move if I have all six bars plus a redirect through a hyperbar. Instead of a soft lock on my 6 bar I usually just throw a carabiner in near the top of the frame and use it like a hyperbar. I haven't actually rappelled using this method, (mostly because I can't move on 10 or 11mm doing this) but I have a feeling it would work. Using skinnier cord, have a LOT of weight on the rack, or both? What about a carabiner through the top of the frame a la hyperbar, and then redirect the rope through another carabiner in your half round or leg loop such as you would using a simple bobbin style device? STILL too much slip? How about replacing the redirect on your harness with a münter hitch? I would imagine that even with a heavy load and skinny rope, you wouldn't be going anywhere fast.
Again, I haven't tried these methods, because I haven't needed too, but they might work, and with nothing more than you already have.

Cheers,

-caleb

[Randyrn]

Hey Randy.
I had wondered about that very thing - how much versatility a hyper-bar would add.

I know that opinions vary, but I personally LOVE the hyperbar and feel that it adds a huge amount of versatility. That being said, I don't NEED the hyperbar, but I really like using it. I don't own a rack without one...but that's just me. Actually I hardly ever use it with 11mm rope, because the larger diameter gives me more than enough friction. But as I mentioned, I'm normally riding on 9mm rope, and that's when I really love the advantage of the hyperbar. It not only adds friction as the rope passes over it, but it also crams your bars together with very little effort on the part of your brakehand and stops you on a dime by squeezing only a thumb and one finger around the rope! My first trip down Fantastic on 9mm rope resulted in a VERY fatigued brakehand, and to me that demonstrates that my friction control sucked!! But as my skills developed, that is no longer an issue. By the way, I don't at all recommend that anyone jump into a deep pit on the thinner diameter ropes without gaining a bunch of experience on them first. It's a very different ballgame, and I can see how a guy could turn into a mushy puddle very easily. Anyway, suffice it to say that I think the hyperbar is a pretty kickass addition for use on smaller diameter ropes.