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Documenting the cave with VR panoramas

PostPosted: Mar 21, 2009 4:50 am
by Bostjan
I was experimenting with the new methods of documenting the karst area, specially with the Virtual Reality panoramas since 1996. I have finally completed my ten years project of documenting Nova Krizna jama cave system. The cave is with the highest level of the protection and the entry is allowed only for scientists and researchers with the special permission from the Ministry of the environment. The first stage of visualization and documenting took place from 2000 to 2003. The new passage were discovered in November 2004 but I got the permission in autumn 2008 to enter the cave and I have completed the work in March 2009. Each entry was with 10-16 hours of climbing, you know... classic spelunking story :waving:
It might be interesting to see the visualization…here is the link to: http://www.burger.si/Jame/NovaKriznaJama/ENGuvod.html and list of VRs from different time periods: http://www.burger.si/Jame/NovaKriznaJama/seznam.html. The navigation was implemented inside the VR location and clickabla interactive map with the pointer to the current position.

Kind regards as this is my very first post to tihis forum.

Bostjan

/ member of Speleological association of Slovenia / Krizna jama caving club

Re: Documenting the cave with VR panoramas

PostPosted: Mar 21, 2009 3:30 pm
by Ralph E. Powers
Bostjan wrote:I was experimenting with the new methods of documenting the karst area, specially with the Virtual Reality panoramas since 1996. I have finally completed my ten years project of documenting Nova Krizna jama cave system. The cave is with the highest level of the protection and the entry is allowed only for scientists and researchers with the special permission from the Ministry of the environment. The first stage of visualization and documenting took place from 2000 to 2003. The new passage were discovered in November 2004 but I got the permission in autumn 2008 to enter the cave and I have completed the work in March 2009. Each entry was with 10-16 hours of climbing, you know... classic spelunking story :waving:
It might be interesting to see the visualization…here is the link to: http://www.burger.si/Jame/NovaKriznaJama/ENGuvod.html and list of VRs from different time periods: http://www.burger.si/Jame/NovaKriznaJama/seznam.html. The navigation was implemented inside the VR location and clickable interactive map with the pointer to the current position.

Kind regards as this is my very first post to this forum.

Bostjan

/ member of Speleological association of Slovenia / Krizna jama caving club

Welcome to the forum hope we can help you along as you go.

I'd like to see more 360 pics of various caves. A neat thing. I'd also like to see more of the equiptment and technique used to do the 360 pictures. Looks like it might be fun to try.

Re: Documenting the cave with VR panoramas

PostPosted: Mar 21, 2009 4:12 pm
by Bostjan
Various caves... I am working with it. It is a slow process, specially in "wild caves" as this one was. As an example: with the process of photo-sampling there was over 20 entries (each at least 10 hours - up to 16 hours of climbing and rowing) and then about 300 hours of processing the photos and the flash programming. Show caves are quite easy, at least with the access. I mostly use the light painting method which I started to use in caves in the very beginning - first with metal-halide lamps from 20W - 50W and heavy electrical consumption. Now I use 1000 lumens LED lamp which allow me to efficiently light paint up to 400 m - that is a huge subterranean cave. I am geographer and karst geomorphologist and as I live in the land of the original karst I document various karst features. You can find more at:http://www.burger.si/SLOCaves_eng.html.

Re: Documenting the cave with VR panoramas

PostPosted: Mar 21, 2009 7:27 pm
by Cheryl Jones
:kewl: :clap:
Thanks!

I'm imagining caving in the future, with a small (waterproof!) device in hand that is loaded with a map and virtual cave to guide me. Rather like Google's map and street view directions. I could set a route through the cave and it would show instructions, map, and passage views. "Hey, what does the passage look like where we have to climb up into the high crack?"

Cheryl

Re: Documenting the cave with VR panoramas

PostPosted: Mar 27, 2009 6:09 am
by Bostjan
It might be interesting... sorry for my pigeon English, but I am not willing to lecture my typing, so I left it as it is...directly from my keyboard... :tonguecheek:
I wrote a short 'history review' text about the method I was using: http://www.burger.si/DOGODKI/2009_LedLenserX21/seznam_eng.html :waving:

Re: Documenting the cave with VR panoramas

PostPosted: Apr 2, 2009 8:52 am
by Chads93GT
I take tons of photo stitch pictures in the caves I go to. The only problem is lining the photos up when I am done. Granted I am simply using a sony cybershop compact digital and side flashes. Ive got some great ones, and some.............not so great............ Learning how to position the camera to get a photo that will merge with the previous photos is what is hard to figure out. I guess the more i do it, the better I will get at it.

Re: Documenting the cave with VR panoramas

PostPosted: Apr 2, 2009 9:28 pm
by fuzzy-hair-man
Chads93GT wrote:I take tons of photo stitch pictures in the caves I go to. The only problem is lining the photos up when I am done. Granted I am simply using a sony cybershop compact digital and side flashes. Ive got some great ones, and some.............not so great............ Learning how to position the camera to get a photo that will merge with the previous photos is what is hard to figure out. I guess the more i do it, the better I will get at it.


What do you use to the stitches? Hugin is great!! a really amazing piece of software for most of my stitches I can't see any evidence of the stitch, it is important that the exposure is the same though which could be difficult in a cave but easier with flashes?

Re: Documenting the cave with VR panoramas

PostPosted: Apr 3, 2009 6:44 am
by Bostjan
For small rooms the flash or master/slaves combo is o.k. but when the cavern is huge the light painting is more appropriate. But in a very small room the flash is problematic again, even with the 3D measuring. I tried with Nikon SB900 but ended with the torch. Here is a macro VR panorama: http://www.burger.si/Jame/NovaKriznaJama/30.html. The passage is very small - not more than 50 cm, that is ~ 14 inch I guess, and the micro deposition forms in a shape of waves (our karst terminology: "mikro ponvice") are with less than 2 cm height. You can easily see how did I use the light beam, vhen I tried flash the front stalactites were burned or back were to dark.
Sony Cybershot...nothing is wrong with it... I use it for some period in the year 2000 just after the camera was released, it was Sony DSC F505V and for that time a great digital camera.

:) Bostjan

Re: Documenting the cave with VR panoramas

PostPosted: Apr 3, 2009 7:52 am
by Chads93GT
fuzzy-hair-man wrote:
Chads93GT wrote:I take tons of photo stitch pictures in the caves I go to. The only problem is lining the photos up when I am done. Granted I am simply using a sony cybershop compact digital and side flashes. Ive got some great ones, and some.............not so great............ Learning how to position the camera to get a photo that will merge with the previous photos is what is hard to figure out. I guess the more i do it, the better I will get at it.


What do you use to the stitches? Hugin is great!! a really amazing piece of software for most of my stitches I can't see any evidence of the stitch, it is important that the exposure is the same though which could be difficult in a cave but easier with flashes?



Fuzzy,

I use Adobe Photoshop to stitch photos together. The problem I run into, is like you said, exposure. Sometimeis, even if the flash is held in the same spot, I get a different color mixture on a subsequent shot and it doesnt turn out right. When this happens and I have no choice, I blend the photos together manually via Photoshop.

Another problem I have found is focus. Sometimes I shoot 1 photo and its perfect, then the next shot to the side is blurry. Of course I don't really know that in the cave looking at the tiny screen. Usually when my friends and I are shooting photos, its not something we want to spend 2 hours to get 1 shot, so if something doesn't turn out, we will get it on the next trip in. Unless its a dedicated photo trip into a cave we never go into. If that is the case we would probably take more time.

Anyway, an example of the lighting/out of focus problem, happend several weeks ago when I was shooting the entrance of Mertz Cave near where I live. Its a collapsed entrance which is 70 feet across, so its a very big entrance/passage. I did a series of about 25 shots and stitched them together to make a giant panoramic. In small size the photo looks ok, but in a larger size you can tell that some of the breakdown is blurry and out of focus.

It wouldn't be hard to go back and reshoot the picture, as its only a 10 minute drive from my house and a few minutes through the woods, but the land owner wont let us just go in whenever we want (unlike some others we work with).

Anyway this is what I did with the compact sony cybershot 7.2mp.

http://img10.imageshack.us/my.php?image ... owdone.jpg

Re: Documenting the cave with VR panoramas

PostPosted: Apr 7, 2009 10:39 am
by cavetopia
I have been having fun with some 360 panos. Here are some from a commercial cave in Colorado

http://www.cavetopia.com/glenwood/

Re: Documenting the cave with VR panoramas

PostPosted: Apr 7, 2009 3:01 pm
by StevenSmith
Your 360 documentation is :kewl:

I wish I had your patience.

Re: Documenting the cave with VR panoramas

PostPosted: Apr 8, 2009 1:14 pm
by Bostjan
cavetopia wrote:I have been having fun with some 360 panos. Here are some from a commercial cave in Colorado

http://www.cavetopia.com/glenwood/

That's cool. :grin: Subterranean VRs are quite rare. I suggest you to join the greatest VR community at WWP. Please read more about the project at: http://www.worldwidepanorama.org/worldwidepanorama/wwp/index.html. You are really welcome.

:) Bostjan