cave photography for dummies

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cave photography for dummies

Postby Jeff Bartlett » Jul 10, 2007 11:59 pm

i am finding a lot of excellent information on this forum, on your personal websites, and elsewhere on the web. however, it seems that there is almost nothing in the way of a beginner's FAQ or primer on how to get started taking cave photos.

am i missing something right in front of my nose? if i'm lugging a DSLR and tripod into a cave for my first crack at it, what on earth do i do?

do i need to have multiple flashes synchronized on a short exposure, or can i fire a single flash multiple times from the same (or varied) location? is sustained light from a flashlight or LED unit a viable alternative? are digital strobes really that inferior to flashbulbs? is there a cheap way to trigger a flash manually, or do i need some kind of fancy optical trigger? how do i get my big, heavy tripod around in a cave? how can i protect my camera from dripping water while it's on the tripod? how do i calculate exposure in total darkness? is a standard "flash" white balance of 5500k appropriate? if a train leaves poughkeepsie heading north at 30mph and another train leaves albany at the same time heading south at 45mph, what time will they meet?

help! :doh:
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Postby fuzzy-hair-man » Jul 11, 2007 12:57 am

It depends on what you have and what you want to do..... let me explain

The cheapest way (I think) is set your camera up on a tripod with a long exposure (for me as long as I can 15 sec) and use a headlamp(s) to 'Paint in the light'. You can get some really nice effects by shining you light through shawls(bacon) and you have control over where you put the light. In my experience (unless backlighting) keep you light moving so you don't blind the camera in one spot and have dark holes in another

If you have flashes but can't make them slaves, or can't be bothered, you could do much the same thing with a flash ie run around firing off the flash manually over the exposure period. Some flashes I've borrowed have a test button that lets you fire the flash manually, the problem was it took some time to recharge and I couldn't get as many flashes in as I'd have liked.

If you want to spend the money then you can use multiple flashes and place them around your photo and have relatively short exposures.

For close photos my on camera flash works out OK. Flashes from a side are often better though and can give a better sense of 3 dimensions.
Macro type photos can be difficult because the camera can cause a flash shadow, I think there are fancy flashes that solve this but they cost money.

But hey digital memory is cheap have a go and see what you come up with! :kewl:

I try to stick with low ISO but my camera isn't a DSLR so I don't have great high ISO performance. I only start to up the ISO if I can't get enough light on it.

Your light or lights will have to be reasonably powerful to produce enough light, it depends on how big the room is of course. My Apex on high can do some sort of closer in stuff but it can run out of puff in bigger rooms.

Definately need a tripod etc for anything but flash photos though.

A back lit photo with my Apex(on low I think, I wanted it dark) (ISO 80, F8, 15sec):

Image

I generally don't have too much problem with drips on my camera (don't setup under a stal) most people protect thier camera ina Pelican or otter box or something similar (hard cased plastic box with foam padding).

As far as exposures go I do it by trial and error in a lot of cases particularly with my setup(cheap) it's a matter of getting enough light. If you camera has manual focus with some idea of distance this can help too, ie estimate the distance and set the focus.

As far as white balance goes a lot of mine seem to work on auto white balance OK, but my LED light is similar to the flash white balance setting on my camera. Especially handy as you can use the cameras flash and also use your lights and not muck up the white balance :kewl:

PS there are some really good cave photographers here so they willl be better able to steer you in the right direction.
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Postby Teresa » Jul 11, 2007 7:29 am

1) Find other cave photo people (aka sherpas) to go with you. A photo trip will take longer than a regular trip. You all can trade off sherpaing for each other, so no one gets resentful about being the 'flash guy'.

2) Don't haul your big heavy tripod unless you are on some sort of commercial shoot. Monopods, small portable usually cheap tripods (usually pack down to 2' or less made out of aluminum) or even those minipods (you can usually set one on a rock. or shelf or something) are better.

3) Read up on gray card densities and flash output. <4 ft camera to subject standard flashes usually handle OK, but flashes aren't calibrated for total darkness. Figure out what your typical cave rock color is on a gray card density (light limestone to lava tube) and carry enough flash to compensate. I know digitals provide instant gratification, but figure you will always need your on-camera flash plus one small slave, and you won't go far wrong to start. Add light as needed. (in 35mm, people generally opened up 1.5 to 2x f-stops to compensate for cave dark, or adjusted the guide number for distance by a like amount.

4) Even with digital, the secret to good photos is bracketing exposures.
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Postby Wayne Harrison » Jul 11, 2007 9:42 am

And when you get those great caving images, be sure and post them in our flickr photo group:

http://www.flickr.com/groups/caving_photos/pool
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Postby hunter » Jul 11, 2007 9:53 am

if a train leaves poughkeepsie heading north at 30mph and another train leaves albany at the same time heading south at 45mph, what time will they meet

Well, I make it at t = 79/75'.

For calculating exposure, there a number of tricks but with a DSLR I just go with what I think is right and then look at the image and adjust from there. For larger photos I usually end up trading off between ISO and how much of the room I want in focus.
For flashes I believe the easiest thing to start with is a B(ulb) setting and a flash with a manual or test button. Select the scene you want to photograph, focus, frame and set up a helper with the flash. Once your ready have everyone turn off their lights and open the shutter. Tell your helper to flash and then close the shutter. This can be done with or without a tripod for a single flash.
One other suggestion, practice this outside on a dark night or in a totally dark room or shed at home. If you can get a good image in these conditions it will help underground.

James


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Postby VACaver » Jul 17, 2007 11:18 am

I think you might have to just go play with your camera and see what works best for you.

I picked up a couple of Quantary digital slaves and just try different things each time I go caving.

For your average person using a less expensive point-and-shoot type camera, all the tips on ISO, exposure time, etc, are pretty worthless.

A slave to offset the light is probably the best first step in learning to shoot pictures in a cave...no more "orbs".
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Postby rcoomer » Jul 29, 2007 1:22 pm

The minimum you need is a camera and electronic flash. From there you can expand to multiple lights, spots, flashbulbs, strobes, slaves, and anything else you might want to try.

Usually the easiest for good results is a camera on a tripod using a long exposure (open shutter technique) firing a flash by hand at the subject or model.

Besides waterproof cases such as pelican and otter, use ziplock bags taped around your camera, just be mindful of adhesive residue later. Dust and grit is almost as dangerous as water and will destroy a camera with a slow incremental death as it works its way in.

There are quite a few good books on the subject, just check the NSS bookstore.

I edited several cave photography issues of the Electric Caver that can be found on the GCG website:

http://www.gcgcavers.com/ec/ec200210.pdf

http://www.gcgcavers.com/ec/ec200401.pdf

http://www.gcgcavers.com/ec/ec200505.pdf

On the web:

Here's one from Dave Bunnell:
http://www.goodearthgraphics.com/showcave/photo.html

One from Peter Jones that is also in the Electric Caver:
http://www.ephotozine.com/article/A-shot-in-the-dark---guide-to-cave-photography

Check them out, give it a shot, then ask questions. . .
--
Rob Coomer
Fine Art Cave and Nature Photography
http://www.robertcoomer.com
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Postby Syndam » Sep 25, 2007 1:24 am

Great info, thanks! I just tried my hand at cave pics and wasn't completely happy with the results.
As already stated, definitely get a tripod of some kind. At lower ISO's and longer shutter speeds you'll be glad you have it. I bought a Gorilla Pod for hiking and it works great (REI has 'em). It's pretty small and light and is flexible so it will sit on just about any surface or cling to structures.
Image
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Postby ooohfishy » Sep 27, 2007 4:01 pm

Syndam wrote:Great info, thanks! I just tried my hand at cave pics and wasn't completely happy with the results.
As already stated, definitely get a tripod of some kind. At lower ISO's and longer shutter speeds you'll be glad you have it. I bought a Gorilla Pod for hiking and it works great (REI has 'em). It's pretty small and light and is flexible so it will sit on just about any surface or cling to structures.
Image


LOVE the Gorilla Pod!

I have one for my compact digital camera... but heard the SLR Gorila Pod's work nicely (with a decent weight lens but nothing telephoto-ish).
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Postby Ronaldo » Sep 29, 2007 7:31 pm

What kind of camera are you trying to use snydum?
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Postby Syndam » Oct 3, 2007 1:55 am

Ronaldo wrote:What kind of camera are you trying to use snydum?

I have a Canon A630 that I carry in my pack right now. The pic I used of the Gorilla pod is not one of my camera. I'm really a beginner at photography and I'm still learning the camera, but last time I tried to take cave pics I ended up with orbs in some of them.
<a href="http://img530.imageshack.us/my.php?image=orbsyt9.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/7145/orbsyt9.th.jpg" border="0" /></a>
Click to Enlarge
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Postby Ronaldo » Oct 3, 2007 7:29 am

Does your camera's flash power turn way down? Some of my friends use cannons and they turn the on camera flash power way down (so it will still fire a slave) and hold a flash unit in their hand to take shots. My camera does not have a soft enough flash to get rid of the "circles", so I cover my flash with a piece of duct tape with a white piece of paper on the back side, although I am going to try a band aid soon. I make the strip of tape small so that light escapes from the top and the bottom but is not flashing forward.

I found a Vivitar variable power flash second hand at a photo shop for $25. You will need a variable one because most shots will need the lowest setting possible. I bought a Peanut slave for digitals for $29 to attach to the flash unit to fire it. I hold this flash in one hand and the camera in the other, enough light from my flash escapes from the top and the bottom of the tape to set off the slaved flash without distorting the shot. (this is the low cost but not the best set up, but it works a lot of the time)

Electric tape or duct tape alone covering the flash emitted a puff of smoke from the intensity of the flash and was starting to scorch the plastic covering the flash. If I cut a small piece of white paper the size of the flash and cover the tape on the inside directly over the flash this does not happen. I have tried using various tapes and anything reflecting any color but white distorted the shots. (the tape is placed so that its pooched up a little right over the flash lens and not touching the flash.)

A tripod is not necessary for most shots, I am trying to develop a shoot on the run style that captures the action but does not stop it. I am using a Pentax Optio W20 waterproof digital (7mp) and it does not have fully manual functions, although it has more manual functions than most internal zoom water resistant/ waterproof cameras. No f-stop makes it tough to get the brightness correct in caves. I am finding I can get around this by varying flash power and using the white balance. I am very happy with my camera choice so far, I have only been taking shots for 8 months.

Using an on camera flash just does not work well caving. It shows distortion from the steam in the air, if you hold a flash in your hand it changes the angle of the light reflecting off the steam and the camera no longer sees the distortion. You will be much happier with the results...

I hope this helps...
Ron
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Postby NZcaver » Oct 3, 2007 7:35 pm

Ronaldo wrote:Does your camera's flash power turn way down? Some of my friends use cannons and they turn the on camera flash power way down (so it will still fire a slave) and hold a flash unit in their hand to take shots. My camera does not have a soft enough flash to get rid of the "circles", so I cover my flash with a piece of duct tape with a white piece of paper on the back side, although I am going to try a band aid soon. I make the strip of tape small so that light escapes from the top and the bottom but is not flashing forward....
Ron

Excellent advice! One of the cameras I use is a Canon A540, with the option of 3 power settings for the built-in flash, just like you mentioned. This mode also does away with the digital pre-flash, which allows my camera to trip a regular slave.

As an alternative to the duct tape/bandaid plan, you might try using a poor man's IR filter over your built-in flash instead. Easy to make using a small strip of exposed and processed slide film and some clear tape to hold it, although I've found print film seems to work OK too.
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Postby Ronaldo » Oct 3, 2007 11:34 pm

Hey NZ,
I have heard of folks doing that with a piece of film negative, but I am concerned about that puff of smoke I get every time I flashed with a piece of plastic over the flash, the heat from the flash was scorching the tape and my flash lens... does the film not do this?
Thanks,
Ron
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Postby NZcaver » Oct 4, 2007 6:50 pm

Ronaldo wrote:Hey NZ,
I have heard of folks doing that with a piece of film negative, but I am concerned about that puff of smoke I get every time I flashed with a piece of plastic over the flash, the heat from the flash was scorching the tape and my flash lens... does the film not do this?
Thanks,
Ron

I've never noticed mine do that, either on the compact Canon or when I use a small hot-shoe mounted trigger flash on my larger Olympus. I guess it would depend a little on the temperature/humidity of the cave, and the intensity of the flash of course. Occasionally I diffuse my big flashguns with white foam and/or snoot them with whatever I have available, but I seldom place anything directly over the flash lens (I leave a gap for better diffusion).

Incidentally, I've also noticed that when I turn down the power on the Canon flash, sometimes it won't trip the slave if it's behind the camera (even using the kitset Firefly slave!) So I have to either turn up the juice or move the flashgun.
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