Cavechat.org

http://caves.org/committee/salons/Slide ... ners.shtml

Congratulations to everyone!

And I'm wondering...how can different people win with the same photo, twice this happened? Were they collaborative efforts and both parties entered the same image? But then how come one did better than the other when it's the same photo? That seems weird to me. Just trying to understand =)

Sungura wrote:And I'm wondering...how can different people win with the same photo, twice this happened? Were they collaborative efforts and both parties entered the same image? But then how come one did better than the other when it's the same photo? That seems weird to me. Just trying to understand =)

One is a thumbnail error. The "Perfect Passage" thumbnail shows the Bosted tree roots shot, but when you click on it you get a different image.

The other is that pretty little turquoise formation in the Kanohina system in Hawaii. Different photos by different photographers of the same subject. What can the judges do, except judge each photo on its merits? Should both people be penalized for it? The angles and lighting of both shots are subtly different, and they may or may not have been a collaborative effort. Several years ago I photographed that same formation, and my shot was accepted for show in last year's print salon (but for what it's worth I like these two versions better.)

Overall, some great shots there. Good to see a few new names mixed in with the old familiar names and faces. Wondering when the 2011 print salon winners will get posted..?

LOL no not saying people should be penalized, I'm sure there are quite a few formations that get photographed many times by different people. The oddity being it is showing as the same photo for me (there are two sets, the copper formation, and then an entrance). For me it (at least was) showing the same photo for both not different images of the same thing (make sense?)

Sungura wrote:LOL no not saying people should be penalized, I'm sure there are quite a few formations that get photographed many times by different people. The oddity being it is showing as the same photo for me (there are two sets, the copper formation, and then an entrance). For me it (at least was) showing the same photo for both not different images of the same thing (make sense?)

No. Which "entrance" shot do you mean? I assumed you meant the tree roots under the skylight shot by the Bosteds is shown in two thumbnails, one linking to their photo (obviously). The other is an incorrect thumbnail which links to McCarthy's "perfect passage" shot.

As for the "copper" turquoise formation, it's tiny (less than 2cm) and there's not many different ways you can photograph it. They are similar, but clearly not the same photo. Click on each thumbnail, and look again.

Incidentally, photographers can (and do) enter the same images in both photo and print salons - but that's a whole other thing.

Both photos were lighted differently and even though they are close they are not exactly the same image. A good photo is a good photo however, I wish the judges would quit giving high marks to flat non compositional images. On a brighter note I thought Phil Lucas's images were outstanding!!!


Bob Biddix
Innermost Imagery
http://www.innermostimagery.com

One is a thumbnail error. The "Perfect Passage" thumbnail shows the Bosted tree roots shot, but when you click on it you get a different image.

Seems to be fixed.

Weighing in very late ... as one of the Photo Salon coordinators, we hand the judges the salon guidelines (on the web page) and let 'em do their job of critiquing and scoring the photos. Each year brings a completely different mix of photos from different photographers. If a photo isn't shown one year, it can be re-entered and possibly be shown or win a ribbon the next year (it has happened). Each photo is (supposed to be) judged on its own merit.

It's far easier to take a photo of a non-moving formation than of a moving caver - one of the reasons we get far more formation photos than active caving photos. (Not that any cave photography is ever 'easy'!) The difference in types & conditions of the subject is one of the reasons we changed the categories this year, so similar photos are initially judged together. However, there remains a single set of top awards for the entire Photo Salon.

The Print Salon is a different world, different judges, different categories. The overall judging format may be similar but there is no overall coordination by the Salon Committee to keep the various salon judges to a single set of judging criteria. The salons aren't even judged at the same time! (The Photo Salon is judged weeks before convention so there is time to create the show. The Print Salon is judged at convention.)

Cady
Salon Committee co-coordinator

Only 33 prints and 6 entrants in the Print Salon in 2011? Is hardly anyone making prints any more?

Footleg wrote:Only 33 prints and 6 entrants in the Print Salon in 2011? Is hardly anyone making prints any more?

Diminishing print numbers seems to be a trend, unfortunately. I suspect the average cave photographer today is less likely to spend the time, effort and money producing prints when they can simply submit digital files to the photo/slide salon. Shame really - submit more prints, people! Personally I like to see prints I can admire in my own sweet time and contemplate not just the subtleties of each image, but also the various print sizes, shapes, papers, mats, and titles/descriptions.

We are getting more prints and entrants year on year for the UK salon. Being a weekend event rather than a whole week the digital entries don't get much exposure to the audience where as the prints are displayed in the main conference hall all weekend. So for the UK annual Hidden Earth event it is the print salon that gets the most interest. This year we had well over 100 prints entered.