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Well is it Groaning Cave? I know this cave is gated and near Glenwood Springs.

Greg Jones wrote:Well is it Groaning Cave? I know this cave is gated and near Glenwood Springs.

Not Groaning, but nearby.

Why not - LaSunder.

tncaver wrote:Maybe the gate and access is the problem Derek. If no one can go there except for "privileged elitist" cavers, there may not be many people that recognize the cave. Perhaps you should provide a picture of a cave that "normal" cavers can visit.

Don't worry John.......abnormal cavers visit it all the time.

caverdan wrote:

tncaver wrote:Maybe the gate and access is the problem Derek. If no one can go there except for "privileged elitist" cavers, there may not be many people that recognize the cave. Perhaps you should provide a picture of a cave that "normal" cavers can visit.

Don't worry John.......abnormal cavers visit it all the time.

Yes, you don't need to be privileged or elitist ... you just need a key.

Your turn Stu.

This looks like its going to turn into a different discussion, if we are concerned about protecting caves with locks, so ...Derek is there something wrong with protecting a cave? Like Dan wrote, "abnormal cavers visit it all the time. <grin> <grin> <grin> <grin>. Is this one of the Colorado caves that shouldn't be locked down? Is that what you're implying? Or is it that you think none of the caves should be locked down?

Okay Earnie, GRIN. You asked for it.

Are you protecting the caves FROM BATS? I bet you are NOT.Bats are the ones spreading WNS. One of these days when you no longer have access to your favorite cave you are going to say to yourself...what happened? ESA has been known to go overboard in the past. I read today that soil in WNS caves basically is permanently contaminated . That means when bats come back they might get WNS even if they didn't already have it. Bats mingle together, therefore they are likely to spread diseases among themselves. The reality check here is that cavers don't mingle with bats (except for some biologists who should be wearing Tyvek and doing decontamination). Most cavers avoid bats and those who might stray into a bat area are not likely to be touching and grooming with bats like bats do with each other. Therefore no spreading of WNS even if a caver has been in a WNS area. "Protection" is a very misused word like "only".

Ernie Coffman wrote:This looks like its going to turn into a different discussion, if we are concerned about protecting caves with locks, so ...Derek is there something wrong with protecting a cave? Like Dan wrote, "abnormal cavers visit it all the time. <grin> <grin> <grin> <grin>. Is this one of the Colorado caves that shouldn't be locked down? Is that what you're implying? Or is it that you think none of the caves should be locked down?

Sorry for taking this thread off topic but here is the deal on Lasunder. Check out the link for the whole picture and management plan.
http://www.coloradocavesurvey.org/CCS_LaSunder.html

It is one of the very few gated caves on BLM land and without Stu, Carl, Derek, and a list of other long time members of the CCS.......we would not have access to this cave.....nor an MOU with the BLM to manage it. The BLM is NOT the USFS and has worked with CCS from the get go on things like targeted cave closures.

Anyone can go on a grotto trip. Even with convention .....we didn't use all our allotted trips for the year. It's a long hike at altitude so a lot of people don't go often.....or at all. It is highly decorated. No...I have not been there.

I'll butt out now and hopefully this thread will return to it's playful nature.

Good post caverdan. There are always exceptions to situations and I'm all in favor of this thread returning to it's intended function. What was that cave we are supposed to be guessing?

caverdan wrote:Sorry for taking this thread off topic but here is the deal on Lasunder. Check out the link for the whole picture and management plan.
http://www.coloradocavesurvey.org/CCS_LaSunder.html

It is one of the very few gated caves on BLM land and without Stu, Carl, Derek, and a list of other long time members of the CCS.......we would not have access to this cave.....nor an MOU with the BLM to manage it. The BLM is NOT the USFS and has worked with CCS from the get go on things like targeted cave closures.

Anyone can go on a grotto trip. Even with convention .....we didn't use all our allotted trips for the year. It's a long hike at altitude so a lot of people don't go often.....or at all. It is highly decorated. No...I have not been there.

I'll butt out now and hopefully this thread will return to it's playful nature.

Thanks for your explanation Dan. If I was mixed up in reading what Derek said, I'll bend over, but TNCaver surely changed the topic, totally, so...don't know where he's coming from. I figured Derek was indicating that cave gates aren't for the lowly ones that cave, so then Dan explained that it was for anyone that wanted to get the key; thus, how WNS got involved here, I don't have a clue.

I'm pretty sure all I said was that this cave has a gate and that to open the gate you need a key. I didn't say or imply anything about the need for gates, WNS, or anything else political. That was all injected by others. I would suggest anyone wanting to debate the merits of gates start their own separate thread.

Ok - let's see how this goes. Not a really popular cave, but pretty close to one that is widely known.
Stuart

Which state is it in Marlatt?

Marlatt wrote:Ok - let's see how this goes. Not a really popular cave, but pretty close to one that is widely known.
Stuart

tncaver wrote:Which state is it in Marlatt?

Sorry - in Wyoming.

swm

Marlatt wrote:Ok - let's see how this goes. Not a really popular cave, but pretty close to one that is widely known.
Stuart

So - no one has recognized this? Surely somebody here has been there - another hint: it is very close the Wyoming/Montana border.