Most TN Caves have few or no bats

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Most TN Caves have few or no bats

Postby tncaver » Mar 25, 2010 4:40 pm

Most Tennessee Caves have NO BATS or very few if any. I base this statement on two things. #1. 50 years of personal observations in TN caves. #2. The Tennessee Cave Survey narrative files. Members of the Tennessee Cave Survey can look at the narrative files for any county and read each description to look for any mention of bats or other fauna, flora, artifacts, etc. Our illustrious TCS leader has gone back through the TCS narrative and listed fauna by scientific name. Those names are typed in a script type font so that they stand out with only a quick glance of the cave description. This makes it very easy
and fast to find caves listed as having bats or other fauna. Therefore it is easy for any TCS member to count the number of caves listed as having bats
and to count those that do not mention bats. It is easy to see that MOST caves have few or no bats. Most being defined as 50% or more.

It should be noted that the script font is only used on the latest CD version of the TCS narrative file and all species are not printed using the script font mentioned. Therefore to get an accurate count, it may be necessary to actually read or scan through each narrative file. Regardless, the result is the same.
Most caves do not have bats.
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Re: Most TN Caves have few or no bats

Postby Joseph W. Dixon » Mar 26, 2010 11:52 pm

1.)How often did the TCS conduct bat surveys in each cave; once every 6 months?, once a year?, once every 2 years?, once every 20 years?
2.)Were surveys conducted during hibernation or summer roosting periods?
3.)Were they all surveyed during the same periods or were some only surveyed in summer and others only surveyed in winter?
4.)What methods were used to conduct bat surveys; direct count?, surface area estimate?, randomly glancing up and saying “look a bat!”?
5.)Were the same survey methods used in each cave?
6.)Did bat surveys include checking for indirect evidence of roosting such as stains, guano, etc.?
7.)Did the people conducting the bat surveys only look for bats in readily accessible areas or did they take the time to look into each crack, crevice, and hole for a bat?

Over half the species found in your state utilize caves as roosts and hibernacula on a regular basis. Three of them (Gray bat, Indiana bat and Townsend’s Big-eared Bat) use caves exclusively (source = Tennessee Bat Working Group).

If bats don't use caves in Tennessee where do all of your state's bats go?
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Re: Most TN Caves have few or no bats

Postby tncaver » Mar 27, 2010 6:06 am

I'm not sure you get the point. There are 10.000 caves in TN and MOST are small to insignificant. Most lack the qualities that bats like, such as being
large enough to avoid the reach of predators, desirable airflow temps and patterns, etc. Personal inspection has revealed few bats in most caves. Many
have one or two, most have none. Over the years, the persons registering caves have mentioned bats when they saw any to report and many of the people who register caves in TN pride themselves for being observant. Many of those people are biologists who are trained to to look for all fauna in caves. Another thing to consider is that the Tennessee Cave Survey is not open to anyone. Members must be approved by at least two other members to include one officer.
Therefore not just any yahoo is allowed to be a TCS member. This restriction helps to keep to keep the quality of TCS members high. This also tends
to increase the accuracy of the report forms and the data provided on them.

Cavers and biologists all have the same five senses. Many of the people who have registered caves on the TCS do have various degrees, master degrees and doctorates. Many are biologists, geologists, etc. JD's PHD is in HISTORY. My degree is Business. Some of us are plumbers. I think JD's observations have been influenced by the fact that he spends so much time, specifically visiting caves that harbor bats. This is because one of his caving buddies makes a living gating bat caves. Most TCS members visit many caves, find new ones, dig them open, survey them, inspect them and report them.

Perhaps the relevance of bats or no bats is irrelevant in itself, provided decon is used, limited caving area is practiced and avoidance of bats is also practiced. I have always avoided bats and still do. I don't handle them or touch them and when I see them I try not to get too close or shine my light on them.
Do biologists do the same? Last I heard the USFWS was asking biologists to check known bat caves from outside the entrances yet I continue to hear
about hands on bat surveys, banding, counting, inspecting etc. If it is no big deal for biologists to be doing all that HANDS ON activity, I see no reason
why responsible cavers can't go caving. Cavers don't go caving to handle bats. Do you?

I find it ironic that cavers and tourists by the thousands can visit a cave with bats and none of the bats are disturbed, yet just one biologist can visit and
the bats are sure to be disturbed by his/her prodding, counting with lights shining on them,
banding, and now culling and taking samples. When a biologist leaves a cave, the bats know he/she has been there. I also find it ironic when biologists
want to blame cavers when WNS if found. Wonder if bats like the smell of melting steel and acetylene when the smoke is sucked into the caves. The irony
is never ending. Do as we say, not as we do.

One more bit of irony. Biologists recently visited Worley Cave, TN to ask the landonwer to close his cave because of the bat colony. However, they did
not find any WNS. The irony is that CAVERS found the WNS and REPORTED it. Cavers are observant. They see bats but that doesn't mean they disturb them.
It was cavers that found WNS in Worley, not biologists.
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Re: Most TN Caves have few or no bats

Postby speleo » Mar 27, 2010 10:31 pm

I must agree with tncaver about bats in Tennessee. Since March of 2009 when some people were calling for an end to all caving in TAG, I have paid particular attention to the presence of bats in the caves I go to. I have been over 150 caves since then, mostly in Tennessee. and I have seen bats in exactly one cave which I immediatly left. I tend to visit small horizontal caves and dead bottom pits. I have no intention of going in caves with known bat populations until this problem has either run its course or a treatment has been found. The TCS narratives are very good about noting the types of cave life found in Tennessee caves. A total ban on caving is absolutely ridiculous.
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Re: Most TN Caves have few or no bats

Postby Larry E. Matthews » Mar 29, 2010 9:16 am

I have yet to meet a single caver who is opposed to closing caves that are "bat caves" as a precaution against the spread of WNS. But, very few caves have either summer or winter colonies of bats, and these caves are all well-know.

It would be a fairly simple process to designate those bat caves as "closed" and allow access to the remainder of the caves. In fact, the Tennessee Natural Areas Program has even gone so far as to print durable plastic signs to that effect that they are posting at the entrances to bat caves. But, they didn't print 10,000 signs, they just printed a few hundred.

But, somehow, only closing bat caves seems too simple. Why is that?

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