Attorney: Bat killings result of ‘ignorance’

[NZcaver]

This is an article from the Daily Independent by Kenneth Hart surrounding the court case regarding the killings of more than 100 endangered bats at Carter Caves State Resort Park.


Attorney: Bat killings result of ‘ignorance’

By KENNETH HART - The Independent

ASHLAND — An attorney representing one of the two men scheduled to be sentenced today in federal court for the 2007 killings of more than 100 endangered bats at Carter Caves State Resort Park says his client’s misdeeds were borne of “ignorance rather than malice.” In a sentencing memorandum, attorney Michael Campbell also argues that his client, Lonnie Wales Skaggs, deserves leniency because of lingering emotional trauma resulting from abuse and neglect he suffered as a child at the hands of alcoholic parents, and because he is the product of culture that views the “indiscriminate killing” of bats and other species of animals as not only acceptable, but expected.

...

Count Gordon Birkhimer among those who believe that Skaggs and Carpenter need to spend some time behind bars for their misdeeds. Birkhimer is president of the National Speleological Society, the world’s largest caving organization. In a letter that was made a part of the court record, he urges Atkins to impose the maximum penalties on the two defendants. The bat-killings “were truly an evil deed and these reprehensible individuals who must be held accountable and made an example to avoid any future catastrophes,” he wrote. “The thought of the defenseless and helpless being murdered in such a way is very disturbing and makes one wonder what other violent acts they might be capable of.”

...

For the full article, go to http://www.dailyindependent.com/local/l ... 32509.html
KENNETH HART can be reached at khart@dailyindependent.com or (606) 326-2654.

Gordon

[onebat]

Abuse as a child is no excuse. There are plenty of people that were abused as children that grew up to be good, outstanding citizens despite it.

[Phil Winkler]

Quite remarkable those statements by our president. I'm telling you, when he shoots from the hip lip you never know what will happen.

How embarrassing for the NSS. Was this cleared thru our PR Chair? It is Jay's job to interface with the press on matters like this, I think. Gordon sounds like he wants the guy hung.

[Chads93GT]

Ignorance of the law isn't an excuse either.

[MUD]

Now how about that? Our lovely prez won't come on this board and explain why the NSS is going the direction it is, but he will gladly come here to toot his horn about how he wants these fellas to burn ugly for what they did.

Hey Gordon...WHY don't you come around here more often and communicate with us? WHAT are ya afraid of?

[wyandottecaver]

OK,

I've suggested the Board remove Gordon...I still think they should. But playing the devils advocate here, we dont know for sure that the reporter accurately portrayed Gordon's comments (though he offered no caveat) and I do think it important that a strong message be sent.

I'm not sure about the "maximum" sentence, since under ESA and state regs that could be VERY "maximum" indeed and that could easily frame the NSS as over the top zealots in public opinion....like people who imply the defendents might perform even more heinous acts in the future against the "defenseless and helpless"......maybe so, but again, the way this was framed make us seem on par with PETA or the Sea Shephards... The sad thing is the defendent's attorney isn't that far off about some of the prevaling attitudes, though he lathers on the hyperbole too.

I think it funny the defendent needs his attorney to help him write his commentary. I'm also discouraged that Gordon made no mention of education, and that at least the way his comments were framed, it appears WNS has reached Laurel Cave, since on a purely technical, picky point, WNS has not stressed that population...or any KY population we know of. It has stressed the Indiana bat species...

On a purely personal bone to pick....What we really should be talking about is the humoungous GATE that ACCA and USFWS erected in response. Gating one of the most accessed caves in the park and a cave that is a virtual deathtrap for hibernating bats anyway due to flooding.....the violence prone evil doers simply killed them sooner rather than later. Unfortunately, now we have created another future massacre by enticing bats to a quiet, undisturbed, future watery grave.

[Ron Fulcher]

Were there any signs at or near where the culprits entered the cave explaining the presence of the bats and that it is a violation of state law to kill them? Ignorance of the law also requires the authorities to have pointed out that such a law exists and not be a lawyer to find it. Sure alot cheaper then a gate and besides it is an opportunity to educate as well.

Ron Fulcher
NSS 44706RL

[Chads93GT]

Ron. Show me a parking lot that has signs up saying it is illegal to steal cars. Truely ignorant people can steal cars and plead ignorance and get off because the law wasnt posted or easy to find?

As i stated earlier, ignorance of the law is no excuse. Guess how many states passed laws jan 1, 2010 making it illegal to talk and/or text cell phone while driving. You didn't see that law in any newspapers, or flashed across the nightly news, nor is it posted along the interstate that it is illegal, however you will be arrested and ticketed for it just the same.

Just becuase there wasnt a sign stating "Its illegal to kill little brown bats" is illegal, doesnt mean they are less guilty.

[Ron Fulcher]

There have been several reports on the local news stations in my area about just that fact but as far as clearly explaining a bat or cave policy is a whole different matter. That subject has not been reported or clearly posted for that matter in the state of Kentucky.

At least the fine will set the current value for each individual Indiana bat, fine divided by number killed equals value of bat.

Todd go ahead and offer to serve as President, when you call for removal be ready to fill the shoes. Getting someone to fill the offices or offer to run for the BOG only gets tougher by publicly lambasting those who currently serve in a general DB category. We owe the ones who do serve our respect even though we may violently oppose their policies. That is what elections are for and we have one coming up. Let us all work constructively towards that end. The fact is none of the current non paid officers and BOG members do not have the time to sit around and respond to your over 1600 posts, and I am not sure that an entire office of bloggers could either:)

Ron Fulcher
NSS 44706RL

[wyandottecaver]

The fact is there ARE people willing to serve as President. But they have to have some expectation that they arent just pissin in the wind against a stacked BOG err deck. It could be that there are only 100 members who arent happy, and the other 11,000 some-odd are just peachy. If so, then there isnt much incentive to remove the President or many consequences for BOG members. If there are 6,000 pissed off members willing to vote...then lack of action or communication by the BOG, even if it is simply individual public statements expressing their position, may well change the face of the Society.

I dont think anyone expects the BOG to respond to every post...or even all of mine. I have in fact stated elsewhere here that while participation on CaveChat is desirable, it shouldn't be mandatory for BOG or EC members. That we should also take the initiative to email them.

However, the BOG and EC are directly accountable for the running of the Society. Is it a thankless job? Yes. It's like taking in a puppy...you know its gonna poop and chew stuff up going in so don't act surprised when it happens. But we shouldn't sit back and sing everything is beautiful while Rome is burning either.

As regards this article, *If* it accurately reflected Gordons letter to the court, The official message the NSS sent per Gordon is: We want jail time and fines to the max, and anyone who kills bats for any reason is a dangerous psychopath beyond education or rehabilitation. Hmmm is that really the message we think is appropriate? Certainly having your attorney write a I'm sorry letter and doing some community service isn't quite appropriate either.

[Dan Henry]

These kids were from Kentucky, right? The buckle of the Bible Belt? If they didn't know about the specific state statutes against killing bats, maybe the whole "Thou shalt not Kill" thing might have influenced their choices? Hunting (for food) is one thing, but killing just for the sake of killing should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Psychopaths.

Also, I see the same people on here who rail against the authority of USFWS and other federal agencies railing also against the authority figures within the NSS. My guess is you hate any kind of authority that isn't you, in which case belonging to society, much less "the society" is going to be hard for you.

[wyandottecaver]

Funny,

I know lots of people who kill wasps, mosquitoes, snakes, mice, and ants....mostly for the sake of killing them. Well sure we can point to the threat those species may pose, let alone the sheer inconvenience....just like the threat of rabies and other diseases that bats may pose...at least to the uneducated. It doesn't make them psychopaths or even abnormal...just guilty of being uneducated and/or making bad decisions.

Most bible thumpers would say that "thou shalt not kill" applies to people and the "dominion over the beasts of the earth" appllies to everything else. In any event, deep spirituality doesnt seem to be a defining characteristic of these guys families.

Where Rebellion is impossible, so is Freedom. Any democracy is an adversarial system. We all want different things. Some want the government to run health care, some dont. The CBD wants to eliminate caving, We dont. Who wins? The strongest, most aggressive constituency. Thats just how it works.

[Ron Fulcher]

The laws regarding caves and bats are misdemeanor offenses of the same grade as a speeding ticket in Kentucky. The only part that steps up the charge in this case is the presence of an endangered species listed animal. There were no signs explaining this fact or even a posting of the Kentucky State Cave Law either, they may have assumed they were on private property. In fact there are multiple reasons why they may have felt it was OK to kill "nuisance" animals and it is the holier then thou attitude of some in the caving community that would condemn the locals in the first place. For the most part the folks around the park seem to prefer organized cave explorers stay away from the area (just check the closed caves list) and this sure didn't go towards changing their attitude either.

The same is true with WNS and the same forces that drove the accusation of cave explorers spreading WNS are the same forces that pursued these local criminals with rewards and outraged indignation. Sometimes they are among us and other times they stand back and point fingers. Either way if those same locals formed a lynch mob everytime a cave explorer broke the speed limit their wouldn't be anyone left exploring caves.

Ron Fulcher
NSS 44706RL

[LukeM]

I may be in the minority here but am I the only person that thinks that if what the attorney is claiming is true, that a year in prison isn't going to change these individuals in the least? Possible mental deficiencies combined with physical abuse, neglect, substance abuse, etc? I can't imagine such an individual turning out well, or having a strong understanding of wildlife and conservation. The real shame here is that people can be treated this way and no one is there to stop it. Everything else is the after-effects. You can say all you want about 'the law is the law' but look at the statistics of abused children vs their tendency to abuse and the picture is pretty clear. Like others have mentioned, laws about treatment of bats are not exactly public knowledge let alone known to individuals like these. I'm reminded of when I was a kid and my friends uncle used to tell us to indiscriminately kill any crayfish we found in or near his pond because they were a pest in his eyes.

[George Dasher]

LukeM has a good point.

If they have their learning caps on, they've already learned.

If not, prison time may not make much of a difference.