BCI Position Statement on cave closures

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BCI Position Statement on cave closures

Postby John Lovaas » Feb 18, 2010 5:51 pm

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Re: BCI Position Statement on cave closures

Postby wyandottecaver » Feb 18, 2010 6:12 pm

Awesome. BCI (the bat people) has a better cave closure policy than the NSS...ohh wait...we don't have a cave closure policy...or even a recent WNS policy....

This is actually a great boon for states like GA and IN who are in the throes of developing state-level agreements.
Last edited by wyandottecaver on Feb 18, 2010 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BCI Position Statement on cave closures

Postby David Grimes » Feb 18, 2010 8:35 pm

Wow the BCI understands the cavers views better than the NSS maybe we should all be giving them our money instead of the NSS. Hopefully the USFWS and other cave owning organizations and agencies will begin to get the hint, that keeping cavers from caving does nothing but harm to bats and all other cave inhabitants not to mention the caves themselves.
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Re: BCI Position Statement on cave closures

Postby Cheryl Jones » Feb 18, 2010 11:53 pm

Patience grasshoppers!

Keep in mind that BCI has paid staff to work 40 hours a week on their press releases, position statements, and programs. So does the CBD and the USFWS. We have a single volunteer responsible for WNS for the NSS, Peter Youngbaer.

The Board's position and written response will be, correctly, what Peter crafts for them. The Board is not in a position to do this on their own, for they are not on top of the issues and players -- that is Peter's job. Just because the Board hasn't issued anything doesn't mean that they do not understand the importance of an NSS response and action plan.

Peter's an absolute gem. We are exceedingly fortunate that he is willing to donate nearly all of his waking hours, when not at his 40+-hour a week real job, working on WNS issues for us. He's not one to toot his own horn, but I can tell you he has more experience in the area of politics, lobbying, political persuasion, use of the media, and non-profit management in his little finger than we all do combined.

Rest assured that he's involved on our behalf in a heck of a lot of activity going on in the background. In addition, a revised NSS WNS policy, an article for non-cavers, a press release, and a detailed letter for the NSS president's signature to the recipients of the CBD petition are in their final drafts. These documents take a lot of time to craft well and be reviewed effectively.

Peter leaves Vermont very early tomorrow morning for Hellhole, in WV, to help document WNS in the cave on Saturday, and I understand that they've arranged for a National Geo team to be there as well to document the work of cavers.

Did you know he's also facilities chairman for the 2010 NSS Convention in Vermont?

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Re: BCI Position Statement on cave closures

Postby wyandottecaver » Feb 19, 2010 6:59 pm

then it sounds like some things need delegated or priorities re-arranged.

Here, WNS grew from a single post, to a 40 page thread, to its own subforum. Maybe its time the NSS WNS structure grew as well.

In the world of media, if you comment on yesterdays news you effectively never commented at all. We could have immediately (or even within a week) responded to the CBD Petition with a general release to the effect that:

" The NSS welcomes all who seek to conserve bats and the places they inhabit, but feels that aspects of the CBD Petitions would in fact create negative impacts and incentives for conservation that might in fact, adversely affect those ecosystems threatned by WNS. The NSS and its partners have been studying, conserving, and educating others about bats, caves, and the ecosystems dependent on them for nearly a century. Using the combined skills and experiance of our members we are preparing a detailed response to the Petitions filed by CBD so that in cooperation with the USFWS, CBD, and other stakeholders we can develop detailed approaches that most effectively address the threat of WNS within the context of the broader ecological and social systems in which bats and caves exist."

A more detailed rebuttal could come later, and is really only critical for the Agencies, Congress, and lawyers. But getting a bottom line statement out to the public (and showing our Members we arent asleep at the wheel) in a timely manner is essential just to show that the CBD view, or USFWS view, isnt the ONLY view..... Is that really so hard?

One man can only do so much..thats why he, the Board, and the President need to recognize when there are bottlenecks affecting critical projects and fix them. I have already offered assistance and I'm sure there are others who would be willing to take at least small parts of the load if help was requested

I and many others recognize the work Peter has, is, and continues to do. But a major bone of contention for MANY members since the very first WNS BOG release was its weak stance regarding cavers as culprits and cave access. Both issues have become even more critical since and those issues are almost a year old. We simply MUST find a way to address issues in a timely manner even if they are simply "placeholders" until a more detailed response is issued.

We do have a Board and even a PR Committee, and they are expected to act on issues affecting the Society. While they may not be "up on the issues" they could and perhaps should be able to use a talking points guide developed by Peter (or others and blessed by him) to do the grunt work of responding to poorly written media pieces, non-caver releases, and basic "we're alive" type statements that can set the Societies general position while more formal policy statements are being worked on.
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Re: BCI Position Statement on cave closures

Postby JD » Feb 24, 2010 10:45 am

The most important issue in the NSS ince 1962, and the board is not up on it? An Issue that is seriously straining the organization, and could destroy it, and which has already led to some folks leaving the NSS since it is not representing the interests of cavers? More caves are being closed, state by state. And you call for patience?

This board and these officers have failed miserably to defend the interests of cavers, cave research, and cave science. Or even their own organization. Thre mosty basic task is to have an organization left at the end of your term. They are failing this most basic test.

IMHO we need a clean sweep - a whole new board and all new officers. This group has failed. They were so busy trying to preserve their insider status and "expertise" they never said squat about USFWS lies, or even now the CBD petition. It is truly sad that BCI is more advanced on this than the NSS.

Peter is doing a good job, but we expect leadership from our elected leaders. All I hear are crickets.

Where is the simple statement that caves are much more than bat habitat and other values, cultural, recreational,and other biological resources must be protected. That policy should be based on science not speculation. That the public generally should have access to public caves?

That wasn't so hard was it?

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