2 mile cave passage opened to reveal many dead bats

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2 mile cave passage opened to reveal many dead bats

Postby WVCaver2011 » Dec 18, 2008 11:16 am

With the help of a couple other individuals, I opened a hole that was plugged by a rock to reveal nearly 2 miles of virgin passage. While searching the virgin passage I noticed hundreds of dead bats that have been decomposed. Oddly enough it seems like they had gotten trapped inside after the rock apparently blocked their only way to get out. so after opening the passage once again and entering it again about a week later I noticed that I actually helped the bats by increasing the length of the cave. While taking the trip to the back of the cave we found that the bats had found our opening and had made it to the back of the cave. I felt like I actually done something for the bats instead of just making them angry when I enter there sleeping territory. :big grin:
There's nothing that makes me more excited than finding a place underground that no one has ever seen or been in!

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Re: 2 mile cave passage opened to reveal many dead bats

Postby MUD » Dec 18, 2008 4:02 pm

Hey brother, ya need any help in that cave? :big grin:
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Re: 2 mile cave passage opened to reveal many dead bats

Postby wyandottecaver » Dec 18, 2008 7:02 pm

I assume you mean new bats from the front of the cave moved deeper into your new section. They would probably like it a lot more if you waited till spring on that virgin passage but I know how that is :)

One thing, bats can move through VERY small cracks. If you hadn't previously noted bats in the cave and you now have new bats moving in I would be very cautious about why those other bats were dead. Maybe they got trapped if there wasn't any way out at all...maybe WNS got them....
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Re: 2 mile cave passage opened to reveal many dead bats

Postby Jeff Bartlett » Dec 19, 2008 12:13 am

i have questions!

(1) where did you derive the 2 mile figure? did you survey it? that's a whole lot of cave. does the 2 mile figure represent thorough exploration (AKA all leads checked, with going leads surevyed), or is there more to do?
(2) are you entirely certain that, throughout the course of 2 miles of cave, there wasn't another way for the bats to get in and/or out? seems like it would be hard to rule this out.
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Re: 2 mile cave passage opened to reveal many dead bats

Postby WVCaver2011 » Dec 19, 2008 1:39 pm

xcathodex wrote:i have questions!

(1) where did you derive the 2 mile figure? did you survey it? that's a whole lot of cave. does the 2 mile figure represent thorough exploration (AKA all leads checked, with going leads surevyed), or is there more to do?
(2) are you entirely certain that, throughout the course of 2 miles of cave, there wasn't another way for the bats to get in and/or out? seems like it would be hard to rule this out.


2 miles is really just a guess but I believe it to be about correct being that I've been into many caves that are about that length and this one seemed just as long. It has not been surveyed. It is not thoroughly explored there are still other leads some of which I cannot get to or into without the help of bolt climbing, digging, or blasting. There is definately more to do in all I think there are around 4 leads that need to be checked 2 of which I'm nearly certain go via wooping into the pit and hearing the sound of my woop carry. I don't think that there's any other way that the bats can get in and out of the cave. I have searched the land surface that the cave is in and haven't seen any other places where the bats could get in. It would be hard to rule it out ecpecially since the entire cave is not searched to its fullest extent. However, I lean back on my hypothetical statement being that since there were no live bats in the passage that was opened,there were hundreds of dead bats with remains being mainly bones with a few exceptions, and no trace of recent living bats in this part of the cave (no bat guano). So, unless they have completely abandoned this whole stretch of passage and found another place to roost that I haven't found yet, I conclude that this cave has no other entrance at least back in that passage way. You guys surely know more about bats then me though. This is just a few thoughts and it doesn't mean they are nessecarily correct but they seem reliable at least. Thanks a lot for your concern please respond and tell me what you think. I certainly hope it wasn't white nose that got them. I really believe it was because the hole got plugged with that rock I removed. :grin:
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Re: 2 mile cave passage opened to reveal many dead bats

Postby Phil Winkler » Dec 19, 2008 1:47 pm

How do you think that rock got there blocking the passage? Just a freak of nature?

I assume the rock blocked passage is quite some distance into the cave? How far? How big was the rock?

This sounds like a significant discovery to me. How deteriorated are the dead bats? Any estimate?
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Re: 2 mile cave passage opened to reveal many dead bats

Postby wyandottecaver » Dec 19, 2008 6:31 pm

WVCaver,

a few questions.

Was the hole you unplugged *completely* blocked or could you see past the obstruction? any space larger than 1-2 fingers wide would permit an exit for bats especially if it moved air, though a sudden collapse might have confused them if there wasn't any airflow.

How far back into the cave is your new discovery and is it a mostly dry or wet muddy environment? Were the remains concentrated near where you dug in or scattered along the passage for a good ways.
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Re: 2 mile cave passage opened to reveal many dead bats

Postby hewhocaves » Dec 19, 2008 9:23 pm

Yeah, I'm curious too and have my own questions:

(1) Where is the cave (roughly) - i.e. in WV? And if so, which county (you can pm me if its not common knowledge)? A two mile extension (or near enough) is a significant find anywhere in WV. Presumably you let WVACS or GVKS or both (if applicable) know so they can keep their database up to date. Personally. I'm doing studies in the Lewisburg area, so if it's there, I'd appreciate the heads-up so as to take it into consideration.

(2) Is the whole two miles from the one dig? And are the bats located evenly throughout the area or just in one locale?
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Re: 2 mile cave passage opened to reveal many dead bats

Postby WVCaver2011 » Dec 21, 2008 2:05 pm

My Hypothethetical statement on how the rock got stuck there, plugging the hole with wet clay is that it was carried there by the water that was draining into this hole back probably before the 50's when this cave was first surveyed. As you look at the rocks in this room you can see where the water table use to be settled and once you get toward the hole that we unplugged it looks as if the water table suddenly dropped meaning that this hole was the drainage of the water to feed into the rest of the cave or at least onto a small shallow pit that is located right on the other side of this hole. Which is one of the reasons I think this cave possibly has a lower passage. So, when the water drained into this hole I would say at some time a rock got worn loose and carried to this hole where it plugged probably with more room to allow bats to squeeze through but being that there was probably water that carried this the bats where probably trapped anyway of they found another entrance which makes me really wonder about that lower passage or that tight pinch at the "end of the passage that I can't fit through with out blowing it open. The bats were evenly distributed throughout the 2 mile passage. I can't really give a good estimate on how long they've been there but I would think that the rock got plugged in that hole some time before the 50's so, they probably got stuck in there before the 50's. Just a guess using a little common knowledge. The rock that plugged the hole was actually ony 265 feet from the entrance of the cave which is a lot closer to the front of the cave. Anyway the rock is removed and the hole is unplugged and the bats are loving the rest of the cave even though they bitch at me everytime I go in there. Maybe their thinking me I don't know I don't speak bat. However, I would recommend going in there after a roin the water table does rise. I know I've witnessed it. Just gradually though and it rises in the back of the cave more so that in the front part probably because it's lower in altitude and there is a more powerful feeding source for these small oblong pools in the back of the cave. I already have someone who knows about the cave and is helping me map and I've already contacted the editor for our local caving cataloge. He is helping me as well. So, thank you guys and ladies for all of your help. If you have anymore questions please let me know. I think I answered all of your questions if not let me know that as well. :cavingrocks:
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Re: 2 mile cave passage opened to reveal many dead bats

Postby wyandottecaver » Dec 22, 2008 6:12 pm

O.K.

If I interpreted that right, you think you had a drain hole carrying intermittent water into the "new" part of the cave sometime pre 1950's with bats also using that area. Then pre 1950's a rock and wet clay obstruction plugged the hole (completely when you found it or not?) trapping the bats. Now the way is open again and being re-colonized.
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Re: 2 mile cave passage opened to reveal many dead bats

Postby WVCaver2011 » Dec 22, 2008 7:40 pm

wyandottecaver wrote:O.K.

If I interpreted that right, you think you had a drain hole carrying intermittent water into the "new" part of the cave sometime pre 1950's with bats also using that area. Then pre 1950's a rock and wet clay obstruction plugged the hole (completely when you found it or not?) trapping the bats. Now the way is open again and being re-colonized.


Yes, you have interpreted it correct. The rock was completely plugging the hole. After second thought which you may be able to help me with, I recognized that if this water was draining into the hole I unplugged at the time it was plugged then, how did the bats get in there? They can't fly through water. Maybe there is another entrance to the cave or maybe there is a lower passage that connects to the clay pit near the entry room that we couldn't explore because it was too tight. If that's the case, this cave is at least another mile longer perhaps collapsed now since there were no bats alive in the 2 mile passage. Also however the bats could have just been located in another part of the cave that I couldn't get to. Hopefully, you'll be able to figure this out. If not time and exploring will. By the way when I said the water level had changed I meant it changed by nearly 6 feet so, Maybe that could also give you some estimate on how old the bats are. Now, there's no water in the room where the hole is but, you can noticebly tell where the water level use to be do to a line of mineral deposits. :bananabat:
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Re: 2 mile cave passage opened to reveal many dead bats

Postby NICKSCAVE » Dec 27, 2008 11:01 am

Not to sound rude wvcaver, But it sounds to me , and maybe others, that you don't have that much caving experience . From the looks of your pics, neither do your (guys) as you refered to them. No helmets, No belay, and just plain outlandish ideas about what you may or may not have found. you mentioned in another post that rocks fell (for at least ten seconds)???? that should be about a 3200 pit . Maybe you should let a more seasoned caver drop that first before you or your (guys) end up a recovery :rofl:
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Re: 2 mile cave passage opened to reveal many dead bats

Postby WVCaver2011 » Dec 27, 2008 10:31 pm

NICKSCAVE wrote:Not to sound rude wvcaver, But it sounds to me , and maybe others, that you don't have that much caving experience . From the looks of your pics, neither do your (guys) as you refered to them. No helmets, No belay, and just plain outlandish ideas about what you may or may not have found. you mentioned in another post that rocks fell (for at least ten seconds)???? that should be about a 3200 pit . Maybe you should let a more seasoned caver drop that first before you or your (guys) end up a recovery :rofl:

10 seconds may result in 3200 feet in the physics world but 10 seconds in the real world with air resistance, rocks bouncing off of other rocks and rolling off of a muddy slope that resulted in no sound to our ears meant it was in freefall. Of course it wasn't and it resulted in a 40 foot pit. Amazing how sound can trick your mind into thinking the rock was in freefall when it actually wasn't. I've been caving for 2 years as i've stated in another forum. I'm trying to get ideas from more expirenced cavers like you guys. Why can't a person gather information from more expirianced cavers? Yea, i know my guys aren't wearing helmets. I have said that they have gained more expiriance and are now wearing helmets in another forum. However, i tell them if you don't have helmets you can't go caving. I know how crazy this sounds but I'm majoring in geology and am trying to gather some information in one of the all time best places and that's in a cave. I even have one nearly in my back yard that I've been working on. The Ideas may be outlandish but I believe them and that's all that counts to me. My friends believe me too considering I proved it to them when I told them which direction the passage went before I even opened it. I have other hypothetical statements as well. I'm just gathering some info probably the same way you guys started out. Hopefully you'll understand where i'm coming from.
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Re: 2 mile cave passage opened to reveal many dead bats

Postby Phil Winkler » Dec 28, 2008 1:15 pm

We understand. One of the neatest descriptions of caving I ever heard was "learning about the earth from the inside out."

You're doing fine. Keep those posts about your efforts coming.
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Re: 2 mile cave passage opened to reveal many dead bats

Postby MUD » Dec 28, 2008 1:40 pm

NICKSCAVE wrote:Not to sound rude wvcaver, But it sounds to me , and maybe others, that you don't have that much caving experience . From the looks of your pics, neither do your (guys) as you refered to them. No helmets, No belay, and just plain outlandish ideas about what you may or may not have found. you mentioned in another post that rocks fell (for at least ten seconds)???? that should be about a 3200 pit . Maybe you should let a more seasoned caver drop that first before you or your (guys) end up a recovery :rofl:


Could this be a reason why the NSS is seeing a drop off in membership? Instead of offering to help you have to cut him down? :down: Shame on you who are so quick to judge when you should be offering guidance! :doh:
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