Enough Bats?

[Jagdmann]

I attended my families church awhile back and one of the individuals teaching a class happens to be the local scout master for the county region. I got into a discussion w/ him concerning local caves and he informed me that he took the boys in whenever he had the chance. We got around to discussing the slaughter of over 100 bats in the carter cave area that happened a few months ago and he asked me what the big deal was , wasn't there enough bats around anyway? My jaw dropped and to say the least I cut my conversation short w/ the gentleman but I haven't quite been able to get over the incident. The lack of regard for the local fauna from someone in that particular position w/ the influence he has on the youth in his group leaves for a daunting future in this area. Any input to a situation like this or idea on education being introduced would be very welcome.

[wyandottecaver]

you could ask him how he likes mosquitos...or jail. considering most people who don't care about bats would still find senselessly killing them wrong... I wonder if a few discreet inquiries among his boys would reveal anything interesting. I seriously think it is a lead worth following up on.

[tncaver]

I attended my families church awhile back and one of the individuals teaching a class happens to be the local scout master for the lee county region. I got into a discussion w/ him concerning local caves and he informed me that he took the boys in whenever he had the chance. We got around to discussing the slaughter of over 100 bats in the carter cave area that happened a few months ago and he asked me what the big deal was , wasn't there enough bats around anyway? My jaw dropped and to say the least I cut my conversation short w/ the gentleman but I haven't quite been able to get over the incident. The lack of regard for the local fauna from someone in that particular position w/ the influence he has on the youth in his group leaves for a daunting future in this area. Any input to a situation like this or idea on education being introduced would be very welcome.

rptyd,
Looks to me like you missed an excellent opportunity to calmly tell the guy why bats are so important and that many of
them are on the endangered species list. If you encounter the scout master in the future, you should attempt to
bring up the subject of bats again and gracefully inform him about the significance of bats.

[ArCaver]

you could ask him how he likes mosquitos...or jail. considering most people who don't care about bats would still find senselessly killing them wrong... I wonder if a few discreet inquiries among his boys would reveal anything interesting. I seriously think it is a lead worth following up on.

Yep. Sounds suspicious to me, too. It' sad that someone can be in the position of scout leader without having more compassion and conservation ethics. Of course there was that dog killing at Camp Pioneer near Hatfield, Arkansas.
I remember taking a group of scouts on a caving trip when we came upon some forty year old signatures. I asked them if they would write their names in a cave, expecting a chorus of "NO!" Instead they all said, "Hell yes! Can we!"

[Jagdmann]

Sorry, it took a couple of days to get back. I did indeed mention their particular role in insect control, pollination, etc... , but this individual still thought they were flying rats. Actually I'm fond of rodents but he still thought bats were in that species. There are some wonderful folks around here but changing the outlook of folks after generations of ignorance, without the initiative to learn, progress or change leaves you feeling a bit stymied.

[wendy]

If you know who he is, just report him to the boyscouts.

[Mirth Beneath the Earth]

Call me crazy, but it might be a little paranoid to suggest that a scoutmaster killed a hundred bats just because of an off-colour remark he made about them. Wendy, you really think he should be reported because of his opinion?

[wendy]

Call me crazy, but it might be a little paranoid to suggest that a scoutmaster killed a hundred bats just because of an off-colour remark he made about them. Wendy, you really think he should be reported because of his opinion?

I didn't say I think that he killed the bats. But yes, I think that someone that is in a position of molding and teaching values to children should be educated enough to know that bats are nice and should not be killed. And he should be reported to the boyscouts so they can properly educate him before he ruins the kids' minds that he supervises.

[Jagdmann]

I certainly don't believe that he personally had anything to do with the slaughter but his callous disregard of the incident and lack of ethics concerning conservation and the humane treatment of wildlife in general should be cause enough to look at his influence on youth in the Boy Scouts or any youth at all, and at the very least have his troop activities monitored for a period of time. But alas, no serious note would be considered by administrative personnel because of ignorance, arrogance and/or stupidity. Especially because he happens to be a leading member of a church organization.

[Mirth Beneath the Earth]

rptyd - ignorance, arrogance, and/or stupidity aside, I can't imagine how any authority in the scouts would react to his disposition. They might convene and say "Well, his opinions are different from ours, nyuk nyuk," but beyond that they may not have any power. And as far as you know, he's just some guy who sees bats differently than informed people. His position as a scout leader only matters if he's used his authority to disseminate what he believes. Somehow I doubt he has, by means direct or indirect, imposed his ill-advised perception on his scouts. You could just ask them. Volunteer to lead a trip and see how they treat the cave and/or it's inhabitants. If you see any Ozzy impressions then you'll know what's what. I guess my point is that if each of us made a post every time we heard someone express disrespect for bats/caves/etc. we'd need a whole new forum to handle all of the traffic. For now he's just one man who thinks differently.

But then again, when I was in the scouts it turned out that my scout master was a paedophile. They can be a wiley bunch.

[Teresa]

I certainly don't believe that he personally had anything to do with the slaughter but his callous disregard of the incident and lack of ethics concerning conservation and the humane treatment of wildlife in general should be cause enough to look at his influence on youth in the Boy Scouts or any youth at all, and at the very least have his troop activities monitored for a period of time.

What's inhumane about his attitude towards bats, Wendy? Just because we like bats doesn't mean that everyone does. For all we know, he may have had a major bat infestation in his home which turned him against bats. We don't know.

In many karst areas, 'humanely treating wildlife' means getting a clean shot, tracking wounded animals to finish them off and not torturing cats. Actually, the Boy Scouts were all about hunting and fishing at one time, including how to track, kill, clean and cook game. In rural areas, they likely still are.

The original poster was probably good to try to put in a nice word about bats, but believe me, BCI hasn't gotten to the backwoods, yet. There are parks where bat houses have been put up and then taken down by popular request on the grounds that they attract bats.

[Jagdmann]

I suppose there is always the possibility that there are cavers out there that look at bats as flying rats too, as sad a thought as it is. I am realistic enough to know though that single and multiple opinions have destroyed vast regions and human civilizations, but fortunately opinions as menial as they are to some, can also build whole new worlds. I don't think it would have been a blast living in the dark ages.

[Mirth Beneath the Earth]

rptyd - I doubt that scout leader's opinion is going to destroy human civilization anytime soon. By the way, the "dark ages" weren't as dark as you think.

[Jagdmann]

Now you wouldn't happen to be a member of the "Society for Creative Anachronism" would you?

[Mirth Beneath the Earth]

No, but they've asked me to join. Swords and armour are for people with disposable incomes, or for people without disposable incomes (thereby causing their purchases to have humorous results).