european bats...forced immigration....

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Re: European bats...forced immigration....

Postby caverdan » Feb 5, 2013 2:02 pm

eyecave wrote:
caverdan wrote:Bringing in non native species doesn't sound like a good idea to me. :doh: Sounds like a good experiment for Plum Island, though. :big grin: :argue:

I also believe that WNS....if and when it does raise it's ugly head out West....will come over the Great Lakes and down through Canada. Maybe we can mist net the border to keep them illegal aliens out. :kewl:


slightly different situation......i am not proposing the introduction of a predator to a breeding colony area........next argument..... :shrug: .

fantasizing about a species extinction event is it really funny? :shhh:


I said nothing about predators in my post. Why do you think WNS is a species extinction event?
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Re: European bats...forced immigration....

Postby eyecave » Feb 5, 2013 8:24 pm

caverdan wrote:
eyecave wrote:
caverdan wrote:Bringing in non native species doesn't sound like a good idea to me. :doh: Sounds like a good experiment for Plum Island, though. :big grin: :argue:

I also believe that WNS....if and when it does raise it's ugly head out West....will come over the Great Lakes and down through Canada. Maybe we can mist net the border to keep them illegal aliens out. :kewl:


slightly different situation......i am not proposing the introduction of a predator to a breeding colony area........next argument..... :shrug: .

fantasizing about a species extinction event is it really funny? :shhh:


I said nothing about predators in my post. Why do you think WNS is a species extinction event?


wns is due to the introduction of wns to a part of the world where it wasn't at.......i mistakenly thought plum island was a breeding area for the bald eagle that was devastated by the artificial introduction of a predator, sorry, my bad.......getting back to the subject...wns is already here.....the disaster is already upon us.......a tiny percentage of bats should survive wns infection and they will form the parents of bat colonies that, most likely, will eventually recover.......i acknowledge also that anytime you introduce a non-native species you risk unexpected consequences....but.....wns either got here via an infected european bat or came in on dirty caving gear that had been used in a cave in a part of the world where wns was present.......as expected the posts opposing this idea contained arguments that were all, so far, predictable.....the disaster is already upon us; it is occurring as we pixel....what are our options........and i do agree that many of the arguments against mine are strong as i knew they would be..........but what do we do if it is a total extinction event that is far reaching?........i know....let nature handle it....thats what we ended up doing with chestnut trees?..right?............
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Re: european bats...forced immigration....

Postby GroundquestMSA » Feb 5, 2013 9:18 pm

eyecave wrote:but what do we do if it is a total extinction event that is far reaching?........i know....let nature handle it....thats what we ended up doing with chestnut trees?..right?............


Right.
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Re: european bats...forced immigration....

Postby caverdan » Feb 5, 2013 9:45 pm

How would you help the Chestnut trees? By repopulating with ones from Europe? I think your comparing apples with oranges here. :shrug:
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Re: european bats...forced immigration....

Postby Crockett » Feb 6, 2013 12:11 am

Government laboratories near Washington, D.C. are working on genetic modifications of bats, both engineered and selective breeding solutions, to develop versions of endangered bats immune to WNS. So there is no need to bring any from Europe and release them into the wild, we will do it all in house. The details of this effort will be revealed in my new techno fiction novel which I will not likely write but...why not do it this way, isolate and modify the native bats to resist?

(In the yet to be written book the lab creates and accidently releases a colony of zombie bats that reproduces very rapidly and eats human flesh...along with much more excitement, drama, and impossibility.)
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Re: european bats...forced immigration....

Postby eyecave » Feb 6, 2013 8:26 pm

caverdan wrote:How would you help the Chestnut trees? By repopulating with ones from Europe? I think your comparing apples with oranges here. :shrug:


boy did you ever walk into that one...goggle "chestnut tree repopulation"....... :rofl:

starting 30 years after the blight they began to search for surviving chestnut trees and also imported blight resistance species......i wonder.....after the blight came in with the japanese trees did any other bad stuff come in with the other chestnut trees from other parts of the earth?....they have been actively interbreeding the different trees since.......i am proposing that we do that with bats........we already have the blight.......wake up people....stop being such parrots and think!......
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Re: european bats...forced immigration....

Postby eyecave » Feb 6, 2013 8:33 pm

So there is no need to bring any from Europe and release them into the wild, we will do it all in house. The details of this effort will be revealed in my new techno fiction novel which I will not likely write but...why not do it this way, isolate and modify the native bats to resist?

(In the yet to be written book the lab creates and accidently releases a colony of zombie bats that reproduces very rapidly and eats human flesh...along with much more excitement, drama, and impossibility.)[/quote]

i would predict that with the first few recorded incidences of flesh eating bats attacking humans an investigation would be launched which would lead to the extinction of the zombie colony and the expulsion of the doctorate students responsible for the release!.......so.....the bats need the assistance of something else......say aliens who provide moveable hiding sleeping areas so the bat population could be increased.....or/also some sort of coordinated attack could be launched by the zombie bats who were kept from needing or craving human flesh until one nite when the attack would begin.........targets would have to be prioritized..fema personel, military personel, and civilian emergency and law enforcement would have to be targeted first.......i have to shut offf my mind here... :down: ....
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Re: european bats...forced immigration....

Postby tncaver » Feb 7, 2013 9:25 am

This article on Yahoo News this morning provides a very specific reason why it would be a very bad idea to import foreign
bats into North America. Simply stated, bats harbor over 60 species of viruses that can infect humans and more than 130
which can affect other bat species. Some of the viruses bats are known to harbor are dramatically dangerous and infectious to humans. Read about it here:

http://news.yahoo.com/bats-host-more-60 ... 09478.html

eyecave wrote:i am new to this forum topic and i want to talk about an action we can start now to mute the effects of wns that should have already been thoroughly discussed on this site..... :roll: ..

wns originated from somewhere other than north or south america....and that bats where it came from have some immunity to wns.....if those two facts are true..then a potential solution is very strongly implied.... :popcorn: ..

if we import non-native bats into the caves where wns has already destroyed bat population we would begin the reversal of the eventual very very near extermination of north and south american's bats...BY NEXT SPRING...the ONLY logical argument against this is that, along with the bats, is the potential introduction of someotherthing that decimates the population of some other north american creature...

the most ridiculous argument against this would be that of maintaining the genetic purity of native bats... :yikes: ...by introducing the genetic immunity characteristic found in some bats to wns....we are accelerating what will take some hundreds of years to naturally occur, if not longer..i acknowledge that essentially genetic adaptation of the native bats would begin with the first sucessful hibernation of a native bat with wns....as such it would begin within the first 20 years of this mass extinction we are witnessing..probably much sooner....

first you gotta accept that our native species will become very nearly extinct. :shhh: ..i am certain that the surviving native bats would interbreed readily or not and instead collect with other native bats and slowly rebuild the exterminated native bat colonies and fit in with the imported bats enough so that both types survive... :wink: ..

...import, not extinction........desperate times can demand actions not necessarily perfect in the ideal world..... :sadbanana: ...
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Re: european bats...forced immigration....

Postby PYoungbaer » Feb 7, 2013 2:26 pm

Holy Cow! What the.....???????? is going on with this thread? Talk about a wild ride.

Let me start with the latest:

The Yahoo story on viruses on bats isn't really any surprise to folks who study bats. They are covered with viruses, bacteria, parasites, and fungi. In fact, the NSS' WNS Rapid Response Fund sponsored a study by Kaitlyn Hughes and Diana Northup looking at a baseline population of fungi on New Mexico's bats. The study isn't published yet, but Kait did present at last summer's NSS Convention (receiving an NSS award) and I've just read their final report. Those bats have hundreds of species of fungi on them, too.

The main point of this study was to see what the fungi population looked like prior to any arrival of WNS. The Geomyces destructans fungus crowds out the other fungi once it gets on the bats. Hughes and Northup did not expect to see any G.d. at this point, and they didn't.

Dr. Hazel Barton did some work in Mammoth Cave, studying the tourists walking through and seeing if they picked up spores. They did - lots of them. Point is, we, as humans do that all the time. We pick up this and that, and drop off that and this all the time and all over the place. We're also covered with bacteria, fungi, parasites and viruses, just like other animals. Where we go determines the mix of stuff we interact with.

Note that the Yahoo story's researcher basically says there is nothing we can do about it. Ultimately, we may find the same about WNS. However, some of the viruses have been deadly for humans, and traced back to bats. Indeed, the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) are currently studying bats in a mine in Africa, where local men go in and out regularly for the ore, and are exposed to the bats which are carrying the deadly Marburg Virus. I saw a presentation on this in October at the North American Society for Bat Research's annual Symposium. You can find the abstract for that talk here:
https://custom.cvent.com/6617CEC09A47484FA6AE8D57DF33CE01/files/b536c02afca64c578757dd76a34c7c3e.pdf It's on Page 3. By the way, all the abstracts for all the talks and posters are in this document, including many that are WNS-related. I heartily encourage all to read them.

I'm looking forward to Crockett's Sci Fi book.

Seriously, on the very first questions raised by eyecave, let me address your statements piece by piece with the science as I know it.

wns originated from somewhere other than north or south america...
.

We don't yet know that for a fact. There are two published studies whose conclusions support the hypothesis that this is a novel fungus to North America. From where, we don't yet know, although Europe is the leading hypothesis. However, it's still possible the fungus mutated here. Nothing is proven....yet.

and that bats where it came from have some immunity to wns.


We don't yet know if any bats have "immunity." Some bats don't get the disease, but why is unclear. Basic science lesson: diseases require three things: a susceptible host, a pathogen, and a supportive environment. If any of the legs of this triangle are missing, the disease doesn't occur. So, as WNS is described as a disease of hibernating bats, we generally say that the migrating species don't get it. But why? Is it because the fungus isn't present? Or is it because they aren't roosting in caves and mines where the environmental conditions are conducive? Or is it something genetic - that they have some immunity? We don't know.

Similarly, why do some bats in the same cave get it and some not? Is that immunity? Maybe. The Virginia Big-ears don't get it, where their cave roosting comrades do (Little Browns, Indianas). So, the fungus is present, the microclimate seems conducive (although they roost in very different areas with different temperatures and humidity levels, so perhaps that's a factor - and there is evidence to support that (i.e. NY bats in two mines less than a mile apart - same species, yet very different manifestation of WNS. They only difference was humidity). But mostly, it's a different species - a different host, that may not be susceptible. Some biologists familiar with the species suspect something in the fur - a musky scent - that may keep the fungus from getting a toe-hold. Others think it may be that the VBE's immune system isn't suppressed during hibernation, as with the affected species. Thus, again, the fungus can't get started.

What about the European bats? In the northern half of Europe, they all seem to get the fungus - get covered with it by the end of hibernation - but don't die (Note: a few bats have died in Europe, but certainly no mass mortalities). Southern Europe hasn't seen any bats with the fungus. Is that temperature and humidity? Possibly, but not proven, although some think so. Interestingly, the British Isles have no evidence of G.d. Does it being an island offer some refuge? Possibly. There is work looking at this in the Canadian Maritimes where islands aren't yet affected either.

Europe has no bat species in common with North America, so there is no way to isolate that aspect in comparison to North American bats, assuming the pathogen and environmental factors were identical. However, one published study did innoculate North American bats, some with the North American strain of the fungus, some with the European strain, and all got WNS. So, the fungus appears to be consistent, although another study has shown a much large amount of genetic diversity in the European strains versus almost none in the North American strain. That supports the hypothesis that the fungus is newly introduced to North America. I am not aware of any information on South America regarding WNS.

eyecave may also be using "immunity" more generally, to refer not only to immunity per se, but also to resistance and/or resiliance. Resistance being factors that help keep the disease at bay. Maybe bat size helps resist the disease, which may be the case with the Big Brown, which has gotten WNS and died from it, but not in the numbers of other bats, and the fact that it's growing and taking over winter and summer roost and foraging habitat from the holes in the ecosystem left by the Little Browns is interesting and evidence of resistance. Resiliance refers to bats that have gotten the disease, but survived. The studies being done at Fort Drum, NY are cases in point.

if those two facts are true..then a potential solution is very strongly implied.... :popcorn: ..


As you can see from what I've written above, those are not only two big "ifs," but within each "fact" lies many layers of complexity.

if we import non-native bats into the caves where wns has already destroyed bat population we would begin the reversal of the eventual very very near extermination of north and south american's bats..


Where to begin? First, there is no evidence of any effect on South American bats to date, and most people believe it would not survive in the tropics, so a bat to bat spread from NA to SA through CA is not envisioned. Second, there is one experiment, done in Vermont, where healthy Wisconsin bats were put in two mines where WNS had killed the prior residents. The Wisconsin bats, while of the same species, were likely fairly genetically diverse from their New England cousins (long genetic lecture omitted). They all got WNS and died. While there are other issues with that study, it doesn't bode well for injecting non-native bats and hoping for a different outcome.

But yes, those were of the same species. What if you used different species. Others have pointed out the many issues with injecting non-native species, including eyecave: bringing in other unwanted things, having them not adaptive to the local environment and food niches, etc. etc. However, we can look at the caves here in North America where multiple species live. The Virginia Big-ear example again is informative. It's not replacing the other bats that have died in those caves. Let's assume we didn't have those in NA, but thought they might be a good candidate for what eyecare proposes. So, we bring them here and then what? Nothing happens. Where is there any evidence that doing this would be work? The evidence is to the contrary, and the other environmental risks are great.

.BY NEXT SPRING.


Uh, no. Seriously, while all due deliberate speed is appropriate, haste still makes waste. We have only to look at the failure of the USFWS Virginia Big-eared captive breeding colony experiment a couple years ago. They were so terrified that the VBEs would be made extinct by WNS they took some 58 of these bats, against the professional experience and advice of bat habilitators and leading bat researches, such as Tom Kunz and Merlin Tuttle, and lost them all. To date those 58 bats are the only VBE victims of WNS - at the hands of humans. This was an experiment done in haste. To be fair, there are only about 15,000 - 20,000 of these bats known to exist, and mostly in two major hibernacula, so the pressure and threat was real. However, they did not even know if the species could be affected by WNS. Knowing that first would have saved these bats and some $300,000 of taxpayer dollars. In contrast, The Nature Conservancy's artificial hibernaculum experiment in Tennessee is more thoughtful, yet still aggressive in its timeline thinking.

the ONLY logical argument against this is that, along with the bats, is the potential introduction of someotherthing that decimates the population of some other north american creature...


Well, that's one argument against it.

the most ridiculous argument against this would be that of maintaining the genetic purity of native bats... :yikes: .
..

I don't even know what this means. As I wrote above regarding Little Browns, there is great genetic diversity among the same species. Indeed, conservation methods and even public policy acknowledge the strength of biological diversity.

by introducing the genetic immunity characteristic found in some bats to wns..


What "genetic immunity characteristic?" I'm not aware that any research has found such a thing, so what exactly are we going to do NEXT SPRING? As I've written above, there may be any number of factors, including genetics, that make bats, immune, resistant, or resiliant. I am aware of one major research project going on looking at biological controls, which may include those things naturally occurring on or in some bats, but we're years away from those results.

.
.we are accelerating what will take some hundreds of years to naturally occur, if not longer
.

If we would do this, we might be accelerating things, sure, but surprisingly, those changes may naturally occur far faster than one imagines. One may assume that both the host and the pathogen may evolve; the host evolves to resist the pathogen and ensure its own survival; the pathogen may evolve because it's own demise would come if it wipes out it's host. That's one of the reasons why some of the WNS researchers are focusing on the fungus itself - it's attributes, it's life-cycle. A threshhold question for Geomyces destructans would be if it can survive in the environment absent its host. Some fungi can; others can't. Unfortunately, the recently published USGS study shows that this fungus can. That's not good news at all.

.i acknowledge that essentially genetic adaptation of the native bats would begin with the first sucessful hibernation of a native bat with wns....as such it would begin within the first 20 years of this mass extinction we are witnessing..probably much sooner....


We've actually seen several years now where bats have survived WNS - given birth, nursed their young, mated again, hibernated, got WNS, survived, and reproduced again (See the Fort Drum NY studies). We have banded Little Browns in Vermont that were banded well prior to WNS and are still around. We have sites in NY where the bat populations are growing - albeit slowly. Kate Langwig published a study, funded by the NSF, that showed behavioral changes in Little Brown colonies where they are not hibernating in tightly roosted clusters and surviving, thus perhaps avoiding the bat to bat transfer (or as much of it) so deadly for WNS. Thus, the prediction of regional extinction in 20 years may be premature. Biologists are certainly not ready to state that the population numbers are sufficient for long-term survival, but there are these signs of hope.

Now - please remember we're talking about New England and NY at this point. Other places are still in the throes of the mass mortalities; others still on the leading edge as early reports from this winter are coming in from Missouri, North Carolina, Kentucky,and Tennessee.

first you gotta accept that our native species will become very nearly extinct. :shhh:
..

Not there yet. I think it's still possible regionally for some, but certainly not all.

i am certain that the surviving native bats would interbreed readily


What?

or not and instead collect with other native bats and slowly rebuild the exterminated native bat colonies


OK, this appears to be happening at a slow pace.

and fit in with the imported bats enough so that both types survive... :wink: ..


Based on what evidence? What will the imported bats eat? Maybe they're allergic to our mosquitoes :tonguecheek: Maybe they won't get along and we'll have a big bat fight :boxing: By the way, one major flaw with this concept - even if one accepts all the assumptions - is that Europe has incredibly tight restrictions on studying bats. Collecting bats in Europe and bringing them here would be illegal.

...import, not extinction....
..

It won't happen.

..desperate times can demand actions not necessarily perfect in the ideal world..


Well, sure. But that doesn't mean we should take every one.
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Re: european bats...forced immigration....

Postby GroundquestMSA » Feb 7, 2013 3:05 pm

Peter. You need an award for that post.
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Re: european bats...forced immigration....

Postby BrianC » Feb 7, 2013 4:47 pm

Much of what Peter has explained still continues to point that humans are not spreading WNS, but bats do while having a hard time doing it. :shrug:
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Re: european bats...forced immigration....

Postby wyandottecaver » Feb 7, 2013 5:56 pm

Peter,

As others said excellent post. After my first post It was obvious that I might as well sit back and enjoy the show :)

Can you reference the USGS study showing GD can survive without a host? The only one I am aware of was done less than a year after the local bats perished and made no allowance for remaining guano deposits, carcasses, etc and only showed DNA of GD present, not that it was completing any sort of lifecycle or even that there were viable spores?

Also, is there a follow on or updated study from Fort Drum? The initial report I read did not show (I think) a unique individual surviving and breeding through 2 complete winters of WNS, only that the Colony as a whole did so...(and the Colony as a whole still declined in numbers by like 50% over the time studied) it should also be noted that the Ft Drum colony is in essentially ideal conditions for bat survival and probably represents a best case scenario.
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Re: european bats...forced immigration....

Postby eyecave » Feb 7, 2013 9:19 pm

piter.....i think we, based on your NSS number, are similar in age......i am sure throughout your life you have seen situations develop that many times there was a great deal of polarized opinions about.......the latest example i can think of is global warming.......

The history of the scientific discovery of climate change began in the early 19th century when ice ages and other natural changes in paleoclimate were first suspected and the natural greenhouse effect first identified. In the late 19th century, scientists first argued that human emissions of greenhouse gases could change the climate, but the calculations were disputed. Many other theories of climate change were advanced, involving forces from volcanism to solar variation. In the 1960s, the warming effect of carbon dioxide gas became increasingly convincing, although some scientists also pointed out that human activities, in the form of atmospheric aerosols (e.g., "pollution"), could have cooling effects as well. During the 1970s, scientific opinion increasingly favored the warming viewpoint. By the 1990s, as a result of improving fidelity of computer models and observational work confirming the Milankovitch theory of the ice ages, a consensus position formed: greenhouse gases were deeply involved in most climate changes, and human emissions were bringing serious global warming.......another way of my responding to your post is simply to point out that a lot of learned men making statements that were true.......were very wrong and stood in the way of early action on global warming from being considered seriously....

when i first proposed this topic i mentioned that i was certain this had already been discussed to death on this forum.....apparently that is not true...it took about a hundred years for the chestnut blight purists to give up.......it has taken about the same time for the global warming opponents to see their error in being able to see truth......

........pater......i am totally educated enough to understand the way genetics works and also how it doesn't work....i just am not sure how a very significant increase in the insects bats feed on will effect us......i am sure that bats will survive as a species in this part of the world no matter how bungling are the actions of the humans living during that period of time.....i guess i shouldn't be surprised that this hasn't been discussed here........i can also see that the bat scientific community is just as open to my suggestion of this topic as i knew they would be......

semantic discussions of origin are just that....accomplishing nothing....it came from europe....VBE's don't get wns!......that is a good thing.....did't know that....my IQ says its the non suppression of the immune system that does that......another IQ thing.......bats feed on flying insects......the further you go out to sea during the night the fewer flying insects you will find......bats are flying at night to feed........you follow the logic?.....i smell semantics in your other statements of things that could be true....

the example where native bats were introduced into an area where native species had already been ALL killed by wns and then saying that because the wns killed ALL the newly introduced native bats and therefore all NON NATIVE BATS would suffer the same results is idiotic on its face.....flash....bats exist in the world who are all already not killed by wns infection.......

removing 50 individuals of VBE's is a justifiable risk to take under those conditions at that time porter.......i am not surprised that authorities could not see the value in risking .00125 percent of the population in an attempt to protect against a worst case scenario .....

i would also suggest that the actions taken could have been predictably fatal to the bats due to a very poor experiment design as it sounds like it was...do you think it would have been better for the "authorities" to have suggested a better experimental design and less opposition to the idea itself..maybe a little more productive?......

the actions of introducing non native bats would increase biological diversity.....i acknowlege the potential dangers except your insistence that it would lower genetic diversity...apparently you can't make the intellectual leap in seeing that a seperate population of european bats successfully establishing a colony in this area and co-existing with native bats would increase genetic variability IN THE AREA'S BAT POPULATION due simply to the fact they survive and are there....a good doctoral study here would be testing this co-existing out.......if the seperate colonies interbreed that would significantly increase genetic diversity also....but they wouldn't have to interbreed immediately for this to occur.........it might happen 200 years later.

the last part of your post contains some very encouraging news.....better than i had thought and it makes my suggestion less important or probably even unnecessary...if your news is accurate and not devil'sadvocatespeak......

my suggestion is directed at a complete or near complete extinction event which is what i thought we were facing.....you make it sound like that is already known to not be likely and bats are surviving well enough to already be able to re-establish decimated colonies, something i find a little unbelievable.............i also am positive that north american cavers or bats or other hibernating birds will spread the wns fungi to mexico and south america......if wns has appeared and thrived to any degree anywhere in the world in places near the equator or tropical or hot environment, then south american bats are at risk.......also you or no one can assume that a strain of wns that is climate resistent can't develop at some point...........
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Re: european bats...forced immigration....

Postby GroundquestMSA » Feb 7, 2013 10:47 pm

eyecave wrote:i also am positive that north american cavers or bats or other hibernating birds will spread the wns fungi to mexico and south america


Do you mean migratory? I didn't think that any species of bird truly hibernates, and certainly not those that share a habitat with bats. I could be wrong.
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Re: european bats...forced immigration....

Postby PYoungbaer » Feb 8, 2013 9:45 am

Can you reference the USGS study showing GD can survive without a host?


Of course. Both of the following have been on the NSS' WNS website for a month and a half. We try to keep all the research available current on the website, so folks should check regularly for news and other items: updated map, media stories (we select the better pieces from a science journalism perspective, not just the barrage of "me too" announcements with regurgitated boilerplate), and other WNS educational and back ground materials.

http://www.news.wisc.edu/21358 press story

http://www.caves.org/WNS/Lorch12GdestructansPersistance-1.pdf published study

Also, is there a follow on or updated study from Fort Drum?


Here's a link to the Dobony, et al study published in 2011:

http://www.fwspubs.org/doi/full/10.3996/022011-JFWM-014

I'm not aware of any followup publication, but we get regular updates from these folks at the various bat conferences, most recently last month at the Northeast Bat Working Group meeting in Albany, NY. This situation continues not only at Fort Drum, but elsewhere in NY and Vermont that we've heard. I suspect it's also true in Mass., but they don't have a very active state bat monitoring program. Fort Drum, being a federal installation, is required to adhere to ESA, and it's a known Indiana bat roosting area, so they do regular ongoing bat work there.

the last part of your post contains some very encouraging news.....better than i had thought and it makes my suggestion less important or probably even unnecessary...if your news is accurate and not devil'sadvocatespeak...


Below is a link to a very interesting presentation that was first given at the North American Society for Bat Research Symposium in San Juan in October. It drew wide attention, as it is the first study that has looked at what happens to the insect population when the bugs are gone. It was a fortuitous opportunity, as the researcher, Kate Miller, had baseline information pre-WNS.

Essentially, Big Browns and Red Bats and fish moved in as predators once the Little Browns and Tricoloreds declined. This is just one study, but another sign of hope and evidence that nature truly does abhor a vacuum, and that perhaps the doomsday predictions of agricultural and silvacultural pest infestations and pesticide use increase may not be as bad as some predicted.

http://www.nebwg.org/AnnualMeetings/2013/2013presentations/NEBWG2013Miller.pdf
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