Live Bat Found In Shipping Container

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Live Bat Found In Shipping Container

Postby tncaver » Jan 12, 2011 6:33 pm

Here is another example of how bats can arrive in places thousands of miles from their homeland. In this case
it is a bat from South Korea that arrives alive in Hawaii. Anyone see the relevance of this? Translocation of
bats at it's best, I'd say. No cavers involved either.

http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/Global/sto ... S=13819195
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Re: Live Bat Found In Shipping Container

Postby rlboyce » Jan 12, 2011 6:37 pm

Good find tncaver.
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Re: Live Bat Found In Shipping Container

Postby tncaver » Jan 12, 2011 7:05 pm

rlboyce wrote:Good find tncaver.


Actually I found that link on another caving forum. But it is linked to public media so I went ahead and posted the link.
Without revealing where I found it I will give credit to the caver whose name was on the post. Way to go Dr Beaner.
Credit where credit is due. But he should have posted it on CaveChat as well as other forums in my opinion. This is
such an important issue that it needs maximum media exposure.
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Re: Live Bat Found In Shipping Container

Postby jharman2 » Jan 13, 2011 9:31 am

tncaver wrote:This is such an important issue that it needs maximum media exposure.


Agreed 100%. It seems quite likely that WNS was introduced to the US and subsequently spread without any help from cavers. Interstate commerce may just be the reason we saw WNS jump from NY to WV in such a short period.
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Re: Live Bat Found In Shipping Container

Postby George Dasher » Jan 13, 2011 10:37 am

Keep in mind that Howes Cave is very close to the eastern end of the Erie Canal.

And that the Erie Canal and Hudson River are still one of the largest commerical waterways in the United States.

In fact, the Erie Canal is one of the three big reasons NYC is the economic powerhouse it is today.

The other two being its fine deep harbor and that fact that it is the largest US port closest to Europe.

The money houses came after the commerce.
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Re: Live Bat Found In Shipping Container

Postby George Dasher » Jan 13, 2011 10:41 am

There was a scientific document posted about this a couple of years ago.

Bats were traveling in shipping containers, in the rigging of ships, flying across the Atlantic (west to east), and--I liked this one the best--in tourist suitcases. A lady who had visited South Africa opened her suitcase back home in LA and got the scare of her life. And then the bat flew outdoors and away...

Free!! Free at last!!
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Re: Live Bat Found In Shipping Container

Postby tncaver » Jan 13, 2011 10:49 am

I think I read that bats can carry Ebola or other similar diseases. I question too much globalization as being a healthy choice for the world.
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Re: Live Bat Found In Shipping Container

Postby BrianC » Jan 13, 2011 12:10 pm

shame this only happens in the real world. The virtual world of scientific evidence has no room for reality.
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Re: Live Bat Found In Shipping Container

Postby PYoungbaer » Jan 13, 2011 12:53 pm

George,

Yes, the Centers for Disease Control published a paper in 2003:

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol9no1/02-0104.htm


Also, not just NYC, but Albany - a few short miles from the initial WNS outbreak - is also a deep water harbor, directly up the Hudson from NYC - and still at sea level. In fact, Albany experiences tides.
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Re: Live Bat Found In Shipping Container

Postby BrianC » Jan 13, 2011 1:32 pm

PYoungbaer wrote:George,

Yes, the Centers for Disease Control published a paper in 2003:

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol9no1/02-0104.htm


Also, not just NYC, but Albany - a few short miles from the initial WNS outbreak - is also a deep water harbor, directly up the Hudson from NYC - and still at sea level. In fact, Albany experiences tides.

Reading their discussion section, the problem as they state it , is humans transporting the bats. I guess that without humans , this transmission path would not occur! I would have to agree with them on this issue only.
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Re: Live Bat Found In Shipping Container

Postby tncaver » Jan 13, 2011 1:39 pm

BrianC wrote: Reading their discussion section, the problem as they state it , is humans transporting the bats. I guess that without humans , this transmission path would not occur! I would have to agree with them on this issue only.


Technically, it was not a human, but an ocean going ship and container that transported the bat to Hawaii from Korea. But, I guess all commerce is now going to have to stop to prevent that right? All vehicular travel should be banned too. Sarcasm. The good thing is that the price of oil will go down once all vehicles
are banned from travel :funny post: .
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Re: Live Bat Found In Shipping Container

Postby PYoungbaer » Jan 13, 2011 2:09 pm

tncaver wrote:I think I read that bats can carry Ebola or other similar diseases. I question too much globalization as being a healthy choice for the world.


Yes. I think we should all retreat to our caves :grin:
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Re: Live Bat Found In Shipping Container

Postby DeanWiseman » Jan 13, 2011 4:59 pm

I still say the ultimate form of bat translocation was the Bat Bomb project of WWII

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_bomb

If a bat can survive getting stuffed into a bomb casing, carried for thousands of miles, and withstand the dispersion event (rapid loss of significant altitude and gain of temperature)... I think we are probably underestimating the ability of bats to withstand extreme transport-associated duress.

A quick estimation from the Ports of New York and New Jersey (extrapolated with the final two years of data) show that over 300 Million x 1000 metric tons of cargo came through those ports since 2003 (http://www.baruch.cuny.edu/nycdata/). And this does not include cargo brought through the St. Lawrence Seaway.

Not saying it's the cause, but this is not worthy of a quick dismissal, either.


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Re: Live Bat Found In Shipping Container

Postby George Dasher » Jan 14, 2011 3:17 pm

Peter: That is the article I was quoting.

BrianC: The article says that bats can cross oceans without any help at all from humans; however, it states they are only known to have only crossed the Atlantic from west to east, not east to west.

Peter: That's why Albany is where it is at. Because it is at the head of the tidal river.

I personally don't think it can be said that, with one exception, humans have been transporting this fungus all over the place. Howe Caverns is too close to a significant river transportation route (for a people vector to be the sole culprit), and the other locations are southwest and down a mid-Atlantic-Seaboard flyway.

The one exception I have to wonder about is the occurance in Hamilton Cave. I just can't figure out how the fungus could make that big jump and end up in an immensely popular caver cave without a caver carrying it.
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Re: Live Bat Found In Shipping Container

Postby BrianC » Jan 14, 2011 3:41 pm

George Dasher wrote:
BrianC: The article says that bats can cross oceans without any help at all from humans; however, it states they are only known to have only crossed the Atlantic from west to east, not east to west.


Discussion

Bats and the pathogenic organisms they sometimes harbor are being transported by humans within and between continents, and sometimes these transported bats escape. Because bats reproduce slowly (usually only one or two offspring are produced annually by a female), the chances of successful introduction of the species are minimized. Populations would more likely develop should large numbers be freed in places favorable to survival. Although a single escaped bat might not survive long or reproduce, it would seek shelter in places frequented by local bats to which it might transmit pathogens. As has been observed, introduced pathogens include RABV, other lyssaviruses, or various other agents.


George, the discussion section does state humans are transporting bats within and between continents. Does this really matter though?
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