Cave Survey Protractors from Inner Mountain...........junk??

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Cave Survey Protractors from Inner Mountain...........junk??

Postby Chads93GT » Apr 7, 2009 8:56 pm

http://www.innermountainoutfitters.net/ ... 233&brand=

I ordered 4 of these things, and the black ink is the only part on these things that stay. Everything else runs off and disappears. does anyone have a way around getting these things from being ruined? Its a royal pain that you have to order $25 worth of stuff from them, just to get a protractor that works.

Now granted i have backups from the ones you can get at hobby lobby, but i like these due to less bulk and they are more flexible. Im just diappointed in how LOW quality these things are. $2 for something that the ink rubs off of after one trip ina wet cave is a total rip off.
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Re: Cave Survey Protractors from Inner Mountain...........junk??

Postby Squirrel Girl » Apr 7, 2009 9:03 pm

Maybe you got a bad batch. I haven't used them a lot, but when I did, they worked fine. Try contacting IMO and maybe they'll send replacements. Have them test them out first!!
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Re: Cave Survey Protractors from Inner Mountain...........junk??

Postby Crockett » Apr 8, 2009 3:04 am

Try these:

http://cavecompass.com/

You can put some little dots of glue on the face to make turning easier.

Punch a hole for a tie string.

Found to be worthy and useful.

They make great gifts.
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Re: Cave Survey Protractors from Inner Mountain...........junk??

Postby NZcaver » Apr 8, 2009 3:09 am

Crockett wrote:Try these:

http://cavecompass.com/

You can put some little dots of glue on the face to make turning easier.

Punch a hole for a tie string.

Found to be worthy and useful.

They make great gifts.

Interesting, however they only seem to be available in "English Units." But the English now use metric. :doh: A conundrum indeed. :tonguecheek:

Chad, I've had a couple of those IMO versions for a few years now (one metric, and one the other type). They've never been a problem, but then I don't think I've ever got them really wet. Come to think of it, I've probably only used them a handful of times. Perhaps a regular old-school plastic protractor would work better for you?
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Re: Cave Survey Protractors from Inner Mountain...........junk??

Postby Crockett » Apr 8, 2009 3:48 am

The metric issue is discussed in the cavecompass FAQ. Coming soon maybe. I have surveyed in poles, chains, meters and a few other units. I usually find historical comfort in feet and degrees. Local practice rules.

The IMO tool is a decal that slides off the plastic when wet. Fragile and unreliable.

The cavecompass has responded well to extensive use.

I am a cavecompass customer and fan with no other affiliation. I just buy 'em and put them to use...or abuse.
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Re: Cave Survey Protractors from Inner Mountain...........junk??

Postby Martin Sluka » Apr 8, 2009 6:09 am

Chads93GT wrote:I ordered 4 of these things, and the black ink is the only part on these things that stay. Everything else runs off and disappears. does anyone have a way around getting these things from being ruined? Its a royal pain that you have to order $25 worth of stuff from them, just to get a protractor that works.


Check http://therion.speleo.sk/protractor/index.php first. The PDF is generated from TeX program - you may find in conference of therion some notes about possible modifications. For example: http://www.cavediggers.com/Protractor.pdf

Any way, only recipe which works is to create the protractor base with help of imagesetter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imagesetter) on Mylar film (the sketch is from silver and never fades) and laminate it from both sizes.

But - check the DistoX page (http://paperless.bheeb.ch) and try imagine what is possible now with help of DistoX, PocketTopo program and for example therion.
Something about that topic: http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php/top ... #msg106012

m.
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Re: Cave Survey Protractors from Inner Mountain...........junk??

Postby batrotter » Apr 8, 2009 6:19 am

I don't normally use a protractor while keeping book, but one thing that I have done in the past is make your own protractor. If you get an image of a protractor, you can the Zerox the image onto clear transparency pages. This is the kind of plastic sheets that they used to use with overhead projectors. You can still get the stuff at office supply places. Once you buy a packet of the transparencies, you will have protractors for life. The protractor images are easily found using Google. I'm a draftsman so I have used these protractors for years.
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Re: Cave Survey Protractors from Inner Mountain...........junk??

Postby Martin Sluka » Apr 8, 2009 6:29 am

batrotter wrote: If you get an image of a protractor, you can the Zerox the image onto clear transparency pages.


Right, but xerox pigment is based on asphalt powder and as such you may not hot laminate such transparency. Second, only imagesetter produces enough thin lines.
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Re: Cave Survey Protractors from Inner Mountain...........junk??

Postby Scott McCrea » Apr 8, 2009 7:17 am

batrotter wrote:I don't normally use a protractor while keeping book...

How do you manage that?

Cave Compass = :kewl:
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Re: Cave Survey Protractors from Inner Mountain...........junk??

Postby batrotter » Apr 8, 2009 8:00 am

sluka wrote:Right, but xerox pigment is based on asphalt powder and as such you may not hot laminate such transparency. Second, only imagesetter produces enough thin lines.


I have used these for years on the drawing board. So, yes indeed they do adhere to the transparency. I don't know what imagesetter is.
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Re: Cave Survey Protractors from Inner Mountain...........junk??

Postby batrotter » Apr 8, 2009 8:05 am

Scott McCrea wrote:
batrotter wrote:I don't normally use a protractor while keeping book...

How do you manage that?


As I said, I am a drafter and have been for almost 35 years. The last 17 years have been on a computer. Prior to that, I spent a lot of years on the board. When you draw everyday, you get fairly decent at it. You can ask anyone that surveys with me. I can pretty much draw things to scale without use of a protractor or scale. My sketches can be overlayed on line plots and match almost exactly.
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Re: Cave Survey Protractors from Inner Mountain...........junk??

Postby Scott McCrea » Apr 8, 2009 8:43 am

batrotter wrote:
Scott McCrea wrote:
batrotter wrote:I don't normally use a protractor while keeping book...

How do you manage that?


As I said, I am a drafter and have been for almost 35 years. The last 17 years have been on a computer. Prior to that, I spent a lot of years on the board. When you draw everyday, you get fairly decent at it. You can ask anyone that surveys with me. I can pretty much draw things to scale without use of a protractor or scale. My sketches can be overlayed on line plots and match almost exactly.

:bow: :kewl:
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Re: Cave Survey Protractors from Inner Mountain...........junk??

Postby Crockett » Apr 8, 2009 9:02 am

Humm, I was not believing that one could sketch without a compass but I will buy 35 years of drafting. That is impressive.

I have also used an actual compass with a dial and a scale and even one with a inclinometer. These are bulky and expensive but if you break or lose ever other instrument you could still survey a bit.

Scott, who knows me, will note that I am in withdrawal, posting to message boards about cave survey, unable to actually survey in Virginia, Kentucky, or Tennessee due to WNS but able to stand in all three, at the same time. When the water goes down we will start on Tunnel Cave but it is a little crowded with about 30,000 visitors a day.
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Re: Cave Survey Protractors from Inner Mountain...........junk??

Postby Chads93GT » Apr 8, 2009 9:43 am

I appreciate the repsonses. I have a back up protractor that is 360^ and ruler from hobby lobby, but I dislike using 2 tools when I can use 1, ie the inner mountain protractor. I guess I could have the other 2 that I have laminated, that will cover the ink and protect it from the toxic cave water I apparently swim in every weekend.

Another option could be contact paper right? Covering both sides in this then trimming the protractors up where they need should work Iw ould think? I think the problem with my protractors stems from being put in the pouch inside the "rite in the rain" binder. Something makes the colored ink start to bleed off the plastic. Perhaps its becuase its stuck in the pouch for a day or two till I have time to get my equipment dried out and unpacked............

Thanks for the tips everyone.
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Re: Cave Survey Protractors from Inner Mountain...........junk??

Postby Scott McCrea » Apr 8, 2009 10:21 am

Hi Mike. :waving: There sure are a lot of keyboard kavers out there now.

I like the idea of the Cave Compass. I have been using the same thing, except in the a 3 dimensional version with a Silva compass. Sort of like this:
Image

Works the same way. It takes a lot of thought out of sketching. Just turn the dial and line it up. Pretty simple.
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