crediting surveyors (from "publications" forum)

[Pat Kambesis]

Caves don't get mapped (especially big ones) if people don't participate in the survey. I list everyone who has participated, no matter what their level of involvement - and I just list all surveyeors alphabetically. I've inducted many a non-surveyor on mapping trips - telling them that all they had to do was hold the end of the tape for a few stations to get their name on the map. This method has proven quite successful in getting survey projects finished - and thats the point isn't it...map the cave and credit everyone who helped. If you want people to keep contributing to a survey project the way to keep them coming back for more is to provide them with up-to-date maps and/or line plots and topoverlays. Promises of map credit don't always inspire - tangible in-hand results do.

For a resurvey project, I also list those who participated in the original surveys (though under a separate heading). If I use photos on the map, the photographer/s and their assistants get credited (if the photographer tells me who they are).

For those folks who like to find and explore caves but not map them...if you want credit for that, submit your discovery to the local cave survey, publish trip reports ,and give presentations at grotto or other caver related meetings. If you don't want to get scooped on your new discovery then don't broadcast it until you're finished - though there is always the risk that someone else is doing same and may beat you to it (yes, its happened!)

Though mapping/exploring caves in a one step process is the "preferred" method - its not always feasible. And as long as the cave gets mapped at some point does it really matter? For ridgewalking I always take along mapping gear, GPS and camera. If I find something that "seems" insignificant, it can be mapped immediately, gpsed, entrance photographed etc. All of this is important info to add to the exploration of a caving/karst area - even the small ones might be important even if you don't recognize it immediately.

pk

[SofaKingCool]

I also include diggers for caves that were opened by nontrivial digs.

[tncaver]

I think Pat Kambesis has the right idea toward mapping and getting people to help out with a project. I've found
that few large caves are mapped exclusively by just a few individuals. Large or deep caves may extend beyond
the physical capabilities of some crew members and schedules also tend to conflict with cave trips. So most large
caves end up being surveyed by a variety of people. It is highly likely that all surveyors involved in a big project
may not even meet each other. Like Pat said, the end result is to finish the cave and produce a map.

I think technology may help increase the number of mappers in the not too distant future. Once an inexpensive,
high quality, laser range finder/compass/inclinometer is produced, it will be easy for just two people to
survey caves on the spot. Currently, three is just about the minimum required for a practical survey. If such an
instrument is created and is affordable I would like to go back and survey some of the many small caves I have
found over the years.

[Pat Kambesis]

>I think technology may help increase the number of mappers in the not too distant future. Once an inexpensive,
>high quality, laser range finder/compass/inclinometer is produced, it will be easy for just two people to
>survey caves on the spot.

Actually its not the instrument that puts the limit on the configuration of a survey team and its productivity - its the notekeeping and sketching. With current technology one experienced, efficient sketcher and a good instrument/lead tape person can be as productive as a 3-person team.

pk

[tncaver]

[quote="Pat Kambesis"] With current technology one experienced, efficient sketcher and a good instrument/lead tape person can be as productive as a 3-person team.

Pat, you must be using a technology that I've never had the privilege to see or use. Our survey group has always needed
three persons to work efficiently. A sketcher, a lead tape/point finder and an instrument reader/tape reader. A laser range
finder might allow getting by with just two people but seems like someone would still need to be on station with a light
for someone to read instruments. Because sketching is so time consuming, we usually have one person who does only
sketching while another does point search and on station while the third reads instruments and tape. A laser range finder
that also has a compass and inclinometer would easily allow for two person surveying....maybe even one person surveying!

[Pat Kambesis]

Nope, no new technology - just standard instruments and tape - the key thing here is efficiency (and a disto does help that).

I have been on many survey trips with just a two-person team - the instrument/tape person does a lot of running around but thats no big deal since sketching takes time. The sketcher does hold the tape and retrieves the station lights which is not that big of a distraction really. The key element here is experienced and efficient sketcher and experienced instrument/tape person.

In really small passages a two-person team is sometimes the only way to go.

I was recently on a survey trip where we did use an instrument that did distance/compass/clino (such devices are still a bit pricey but not obscenely so and with a size that was suprisingly manageable - though I wouldn't use it in a crawlway.) In normal survey circumstances the flow of data would have been almost way too fast for the sketcher - but these were not normal conditions and we used two sketchers (4 person team).

For productive survey its ALL about efficiency no matter what method is used.

pk

[tncaver]

A distance/compass/clino thats CHEAP and compact would be oh so nice!

[HKalnitz]

I have always told new cartographers two things:

Want to piss off your surveyors? Leave their names off the map.

Really want to piss them off? Put it on and spell it wrong.

Regardless of the hours or the difficulty, surveyors have made a real effort to supply you the data you need to draw up the map - leaving names off minimizes their effort as well as screws with the historical record, as well as shrinks your pool of suck..er..surveyors.
I usually find a way to include everyone (including, in one case, a yet-to-be born Caver).

Howard