Cavechat.org

Posted: **Jan 22, 2008 4:36 pm**

Does anyone have the information for the 2008 Cartography Salon?

I know, I know, I should just refer to the Salon webpage. which I did, at and:

http://www.caves.org/committee/salons/Cartographic.shtml wrote:All entries must be mailed to George Dasher, 63 Valley Drive, Elkview, WV 25071-9463, postmarked no later than July 1, 2007, or delivered to the Cartographic Salon exhibition area at the NSS Convention by noon Monday, July 23, 2007.

Well, golly gee, that's last year's information isn't it! Luckily, that page says for more information I can visit the Survey and Cartography Section (SACS) website. Unluckily, that site only links me to the 2006 Salon information:

http://www.caves.org/section/sacs/cartsalon.html wrote:All entries must be mailed to Jim "Crash" Kennedy, 3406 Catalina Dr., Austin, TX 78741-7041, postmarked no later than July 1, 2006, or delivered to the Cartographic Salon exhibition area at the NSS Convention by noon Monday, August 7, 2006.

...and, in fact, when I click on the "entry information" link from the SACS main page, it's even less useful:

http://www.caves.org/section/sacs/salon.html wrote:The 2005 Cartographic Salon will be held during the NSS Convention in Huntsille, Alabama July 4-8, 2005. Jim Kennedy is this year's Salon Coordinator. Maps can delivered to Jim by noon on the Monday of convention week.

So we have 3 instances of bad, outdated information (to varying degrees), and 0 instances of accurate information. What gives? Recognizing a pattern, I'd feel safe assuming that I'll need to have entries submitted before July, but it's a little disappointing that the people who will be critiquing (skewering?) my maps fail to transmit basic information to prospective entrants successfully!

edit: special bonus! The page that still shows the 2005 Salon information is titled: "SACS -2004 Carto Salon." Wow.

:question:

Posted: **Jan 22, 2008 4:41 pm**

Why don't you send a private message to George Dasher. He frequents this board and might even respond to this subject. Jep.

Posted: **Jan 24, 2008 2:10 pm**

I resigned from the Salon in 2007.

Rod Horricks is the chairman of the 2008 Cart Salon.

Jim Kennedy is now the overall coordinator for the Salon.

(so the information was waay out of day, but things have come full circle and now the information is back in date. I hope that made sense...)

Posted: **Jan 24, 2008 2:12 pm**

If it makes you feel better, neither Jim, Rod, or I are responsible for the webpages or the information on them.

I'm not going to bitch further, but we can't seem to get them updated either.

Posted: **Jan 24, 2008 7:44 pm**

George Dasher wrote:If it makes you feel better, neither Jim, Rod, or I are responsible for the webpages or the information on them.
I'm not going to bitch further, but we can't seem to get them updated either.

When I emailed Jim, I volunteered to maintain these pages - it sounds like he's not the person to ask, but I don't want to complain without offering a solution. PM me if I can be of help or if you'd just like to point me in the direction of which cage to rattle.

Posted: **Jan 28, 2008 1:03 pm**

The bottom line is that we need someone new to maintain those pages.

But, since I resigned, I can't give you the "go ahead." That's Jim's call.

I also email Alex a complete list of all the Cart Salons; if that has been posted I can't find it.

Posted: **Jan 28, 2008 8:06 pm**

xcathodex wrote:When I emailed Jim, I volunteered to maintain these pages - it sounds like he's not the person to ask, but I don't want to complain without offering a solution. PM me if I can be of help or if you'd just like to point me in the direction of which cage to rattle.

I noticed on the page listing all the salons a notation that page was recently updated by Alex Sproul with a link to contact him. Perhaps if you e-mail him he could let you know who to contact to volunteer to help out.

The NSS Organization is unique because it relies on many volunteers. There is a lot going on and truthfully no one person in the organization can possibly keep up with it all. In the past when I've noticed incorrect information if I e-mail the person listed at the bottom of the page as the contact I've had good results. :kewl:

Posted: **Jan 29, 2008 3:56 am**

Or even better Jeff,
Come the the Survey and Cartography Section meeting at convention. It, like all other areas of the NSS, is driven by volunteers, with a ton of other responsibilities and jobs, not to mention trying to find time to actually survey and draft the maps we seem to be so fond of talking about. It is monday lunch, typically right after the Survey and Cartography Session (which by the way info will posted here soon).
We are always looking for folks to help out, be it salons, newsletters, or web pages. Also since we are just over a year away from the international in Texas there are a lot of new, exciting, and (most important) vacant positions needing filling for that.

Hope to see you there
Howard Kalnitz
Vice something of S&C section

Posted: **Jan 30, 2008 12:57 am**

well, i'm definitely not going to be able to make it to Florida, that's for sure. but i'm willing to help.
I'll email Alex.

jeff

Posted: **Jan 30, 2008 10:20 am**

George Dasher wrote:If it makes you feel better, neither Jim, Rod, or I are responsible for the webpages or the information on them.

I'm not going to bitch further, but we can't seem to get them updated either.

Whoa, there, George! Don't hang this on me. It's not my job to update the Salon pages; my job is to upload the updated information provided by the salon chairs. I've been trying since September to get all the salons updated for 2008.
:hairpull:

I have e-mailed Rod, and Jim, and George more than once, asking for this information, but gotten no response except from George, who says he's retired. It would appear at this stage that there may not BE a Cart Salon this year. I've also been hounding Pat Kambesis to update the SACS site, but she's heavily involved as webmaster for the 2009 ICS and is presently out of the country for 6 weeks (caving, for heaven's sake!).

I appreciate Jeff''s willingness to maintain the Cart Salon pages, but that's not the issue; I cna upload new information in about 5 minutes. What is needed is that new information -- the submission deadline, where to submit, any changes to fees or categories, and WHO'S IN CHARGE.

[And yes, George, the info you provided IS up on the site. You gave me a complete list of salon winners since 1978. The site already has a page for the 2007 winners, and at its bottom is a link to the 2006 winners page. At the bottom of that page, there is a link to your list of all previous winners. Make sense?]

If it's any consolation, the Cover Art Salon is in the same boat. Aaron Atz retired last year, and whoever was supposed to take over, hasn't.

Alex

Posted: **Jan 30, 2008 10:38 am**

Alex Sproul wrote:
George Dasher wrote:If it makes you feel better, neither Jim, Rod, or I are responsible for the webpages or the information on them.

I'm not going to bitch further, but we can't seem to get them updated either.

Whoa, there, George! Don't hang this on me. It's not my job to update the Salon pages; my job is to upload the updated information provided by the salon chairs. I've been trying since September to get all the salons updated for 2008.

I have e-mailed Rod, and Jim, and George more than once, asking for this information, but gotten no response except from George, who says he's retired. It would appear at this stage that there may not BE a Cart Salon this year. I've also been hounding Pat Kambesis to update the SACS site, but she's heavily involved as webmaster for the 2009 ICS and is presently out of the country for 6 weeks (caving, for heaven's sake!).

I appreciate Jeff''s willingness to maintain the Cart Salon pages, but that's not the issue; I can upload new information in about 5 minutes. What is needed is that new information -- the submission deadline, where to submit, any changes to fees or categories, and WHO'S IN CHARGE.

[And yes, George, the info you provided IS up on the site. You gave me a complete list of salon winners since 1978. The site already has a page for the 2007 winners, and at its bottom is a link to the 2006 winners page. At the bottom of that page, there is a link to your list of all previous winners. Make sense?]

If it's any consolation, the Cover Art Salon is in the same boat. Aaron Atz retired last year, and whoever was supposed to take over, hasn't.

Alex

Posted: **Jan 30, 2008 11:28 am**

There'll be a Cart Salon this year. Rod is in charge, and he'll do a good job. He is just not on this Discussion Board, and isn't aware there are questions.

Alex: I'll look again for your posting. Just because I can't find something doesn't mean it is not there; I have a dickens of a time grocery shopping.

Posted: **Jan 30, 2008 11:30 am**

All right Alex, give me a hint. Where it is?

:shrug:

Posted: **Jan 30, 2008 1:12 pm**

Good news! :banana_yay:

I e-mailed Cady Soukup, Salon Co-Chair for the whole shebang, about the difficulties with the Cart and Cover Art Salons. She provided me with the complete 2008 Salons announcement that will soon be appearing in the February NSS News. I have used that info to update the salon pages on the web site. There are still some improvements needed, for which I will have to reach the chairs, but the essentials are up now.

Posted: **Jan 30, 2008 1:25 pm**

George Dasher wrote:All right Alex, give me a hint. Where it is?

Short answer: http://www.caves.org/committee/salons/Cart%20Salon.pdf

Long navigational answer:
1. Go to caves.org, click on Cave Art and Music (Salons); then click Cartographic Salon.
2. Now click on the blue ribbon that says "View Recent Winners"... You'll get the page 2007 Cart Salon Winners.
3. Scroll to the bottom of this page; find and click on View the 2006 Winners... You'll get the page 2006 Cart Salon Winners.
4. Scroll to the bottom of that page, find and click on View all Cart Salon Winners since 1978. Viola, your pdf!

Let me know if you need a plan map of your grocery store. :tonguecheek:

Alex

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