marking stations

[caverbill]

Now that many of us no longer carry carbide lights, what is a common/acceptable way to mark stations. I have used a lumber maker on clean walls, but they do not work on mud.

[Spike]

I've used lumber crayons, sharpies and flagging, dogtags, poker chips, and blaze orange plastic survey markers on an aluminum nail. Which type I use often depends on the passage.

Spike

[Scott McCrea]

We have had pretty good luck with White Out. It sticks to anything, dries quickly and can be picked off when it dries, if necessary. We put a White Out dot on the actual station and then, if necessary, a piece of flagging, near by, with info written on it.

[George Dasher]

Lumber crayons. They're small and cheap, although they don't work well in a lot of places.

Use your finger in mud and make a x.

But, to be honest, taking along a carbide lamp still works the best.

[Squirrel Girl]

Nobody's yet mentioned fingernail polish.

[cavedoc]

The metal "hook" at the end of the survey tape is pretty tough and can scratch an X in many things. Some people will carry a bolt kit and do a single whack at the station. It leaves a recognizable mark if you're looking for it, but looks natural enough if you're not. Of course neither solves the mud issue. Usually we just use flagging tape.

[barcelonacvr]

Nobody's yet mentioned fingernail polish.

We use that ,a nice mettalic :) I have been experimenting with epoxy putties such as used in aquariums( non toxic) in a couple caves here that flood to an extreme every year.Nail polish did not stand up on all the stations.

I twist a piece off and make a protusion out of a crack .I can also kind of scuff it so it blends in better.It is grey so that also adds to the blending . It is not hard to handle (slightly tacky) and it dries hard as "rock",

While not fast it stands up and it seems less intrusive in comparison to drilling a small hole.

I still have a lot to learn in survey but this is working for me well enough.If anyone has a better suggestion I am always open to new ideas.The biggest problem with the caves that flood is all the abrasive debris that comes through at the same time.

[caverbill]

These are some suggestions! I will stock my survey bag with a small variety, but will also follow George's suggestion and buy some carbide.

I immediately saw an opportunity to make some of my wife's nail polish disappear. On trips where she will be present, I will use an alternative method!

[paul]

Nobody's yet mentioned fingernail polish.

I was going to but I thought everybody would think I was joking!

A group of us used a bright pink fingernail polish when surveying some caves out in Thailand a couple of years ago.

[Grandpa Caver]

Humm, I wonder if glitter polish would be more visible

[Squirrel Girl]

Humm, I wonder if glitter polish would be more visible

Not necessarily. Last year, for the Christmas bike ride and decoration contest (which I won, by the way), I used gold fingernail polish and painted my spokes. I put 4 coats on one wheel (took me 2 hours) and you could hardly see it. I later took the bike into a shop for some work, and they simply thought my spokes were dirty.

[Caver1402]

Wouldn't something like nail polish or white out be bad for a cave system, because it's a foreign chemical? I suppose carbide is, too ... but it doesn't seem as bad to me, maybe because surveying and carbide feel like synonymous aspects of caving!

I am trying to think of an alternative to carbide for when I need to mark stations in Mammoth. I think I'll bring flagging tape, a permanent marker, and white out. I like carbide, but I want to try using something cleaner, easier to handle. In some passages, putting on and taking off my carbide lamp gets cumbersome, not to mention needing to change it and having to dig around in my bag for the tools to do so!

[Jeff Bartlett]

i've actually carried a carbide lamp just for warmth and marking permanent stations, with my stenlight on my helmet. saw someone do that in mammoth and it seemed like a good idea.

blaze orange fingernail polish does work well, and i suspect whiteout would be even better - haven't tried that. i also can't attest to the permanence of these options - has anyone recovered stations marked this way or tied into older surveys using either?

lumber crayon works OK, but in caves where there is any kind of dampness or seep it will slowly diffuse and then disappear. we surveyed a cave with a lot of belly crawling by marking stations on the ceiling with lumber crayon and using 6" plastic standoffs to shoot the shots - unfortunately, the stations rubbed off as we crawled by and were difficult to recover on a future trip.

permanent markers don't work well for me, unless the cave is really dry and the stations are free of mud/sediment the markers start hiccuping very quickly.

flagging tape is the standby - set your stations with a small dot (carbide or nailpolish/whiteout) and a streamer of flagging tape, and then you have the option to either pull the tape on your way out (leaving stations you'll need to recover; typically we make sure there is a permanent station every 3 or 4 shots in passage with no branches, and a permanent station anywhere a survey might need to be attached), or on a future trip after you've entered the data and made sure it's error-free. in a passage that will flood higher than the flagging tape, you can always go the poker chip route if a carbide designation on a rock (or the wall) isn't an option.

[robcountess]

I usually use flagging, or carbide, or cairns. I only mark junctions. I have thought about just pointing to the station and taking a digital photo and linking that to the map but have never actually done this. If you were surveying with a palm you could just bring up the picture of the station on the next trip and continue on.

[wyandottecaver]

Krylon in flourescent orange We once used a set of 2 LED lights for survey stations as we went. I've wondered about using globs of plumbers putty for permanent stations but I rarely set permanent stations.