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NWSurveyor wrote: He stood on the issue of not wanting the public to gain access to his map because more people might visit the cave; impacting the environment and/or become injured due to the complex vertical aspects. All that is completely understandable and a respectable stance, but where do you draw the line?
NWSurveyor wrote:I had an experience with a "cave surveyor" who had mapped a fairly complex cave system and was not willing to share his map. I'm in the NSS, a Grotto member, a caver... I offered to buy a paper copy so I could use it in-cave, but the only thing he was willing to do was send me a link to a locked pdf which I couldn't print or do anything other than look at it on my screen. Is this normal?
Martin Sluka wrote:According to article: Sustainable Mapping of Caves, Ph. Hauselmann and the UISIC Workgroup of Topography and mapping, the main reason of proper documentation of cave is to prevent double human impact to cave environment. Only if the cave is correctly mapped and the map is available it is possible to see what was explored and what not and not to do "re-explorations"....
NWSurveyor wrote:I had an experience with a "cave surveyor" who had mapped a fairly complex cave system and was not willing to share his map. I'm in the NSS, a Grotto member, a caver... I offered to buy a paper copy so I could use it in-cave, but the only thing he was willing to do was send me a link to a locked pdf which I couldn't print or do anything other than look at it on my screen. Is this normal?
I'm not interested in acquiring this map anymore. Nor am I interested in giving this individual any grief. I was really just posting up the question since I couldn't figure out why someone would survey and map a cave to such detail only to keep it private.John Lovaas wrote:Did this person map the cave by himself? Probably not. Ask around- someone else may have a copy.
No offense, but why is it up to you to make that determination? It's the same attitude this guy had and it's got nothing to do with what you think of me and my caving abilities. If I approached you and said, I'm a member of the Grotto and the NSS and I am going into this cave, could I please pay you for, or would you be willing to give me a copy of your cave map? You would say what? No because I'm a stranger to you and you can't attest to whether I'm a responsible caver or not. Sorry man, but I think that's bs and I'd go into the cave without your map. So what did you really accomplish?John Lovaas wrote:I can't determine if you are a resonsible caver simply by your ownership of caving gear.
NWSurveyor wrote:I could have told him I spent more than 10 years on a high angle mountain rescue team and was qualified in cave rescue by the NCRC. Would you give me a map based on that?
NWSurveyor wrote:Not sharing may or may not lessen cave impacts or avert risk of injury or death.
NWSurveyor wrote:I propose that by sharing maps, even with complete strangers, personal judgements aside, you are in fact promoting safety, education and cave awareness.
NWSurveyor wrote:Personal judgement on whether a caver is responsible or just mucking around is arrogance..
NWSurveyor wrote:In public land caves you can't control who can go into what cave. You can, however, educate them by providing a map and your personal experience and recommendations. If the thought is that they might be in danger because they don't have the experience necessary, then contacting the local rescue team, putting them on notice and providing them with the map would be the smart move.
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