Cavechat.org

Hey all! I was wondering if you could list the software programs that were capable of in-cave digital surveying. That is, a program that will automatically input data via bluetooth and one that you can sketch the cave map with in-cave. I guess while we're at it, could you also list good in-cave PDA devices that would be acceptable for such conditions?

I thought since the older DIstoX is getting ready to be re-released, it would be a good idea to get people on track of what programs and PDA's to get instead of going through the process of trial and error.

Thanks!

As far as I know the options are PocketTopo and Auriga. The sketching part is new to Auriga.

Auriga runs on Palm devices and PocketTopo on Windows Mobile. I've used Palm Tungsten E2s and for Windows HP IPAQ or Dell Axim. All can be found on E-bay. Can be used inside waterproof pouches. Can be fastened inside a yellow survey book.

Both have Disto X calibration software.

You can run Palm programs, like Auriga, on Windows Mobile devices with StyleTap but it costs $50. I have both Auriga and PocketTopo on my HP IPAQ.

When I went to the StyleTap page to check the cost I noticed they have an iPhone app for $50. So if you already have an iPhone you can run Auriga. I haven't tried it but drawing on an iPhone is probably harder than on the other devices. Also, I wonder about the bluetooth connection to the DistoX with an iPhone.

I have an HP IPAQ but for some reason everytime the battery gets low PocketTopo is completely wiped off of it and I have to reinstall it. That would be horrible if one completed a survey with PocketTopo and at the end of the survey, the program was completely wiped off.

The battery in my IPAQ is always running low it seems (Palm much better on batteries, but you can't carry a spare). However it does not effect PocketTopo. I've had the thing completely dead - for months even - and when it is recharged everything is there.

Something strange is going on with your IPAQ. That should not happen.

I have zero experience using the Palm or the IPAQ for actual cave surveying. I use either the Palm or the IPAQ (or Axim) to calibrate the Disto Xs. The Palm calibration routine is more user friendly, but it does not save the calibration files - which can be useful if you have a problem. To download the data after a survey trip I use the IPAQ, although the laptop works too.

Hi,

I'm the developer of Auriga, here are a few answers to questions in this thread.

Auriga runs on Palm OS PDAs. You can get a cheap obsolete PDA on eBay or a current model from Aceeca. Their PDA32 (hi-res color, RAM/NVRAM, SD slot) has Bluetooth and IR options (total 230$). In case the battery drains, everything is saved as a non-volatile backup whenever you turn off the device. Featuring a resistive screen, you can use its stylus through a waterproof pouch, something that cannot be said of capacitive screens found on most smartphones and tablets. StyleTap has 50$ PalmOS emulators for the Windows Mobile, Symbian and iOS platforms. The latter requires that you jailbreak your Apple device to install it (Apple doesn't allow emulators in its AppStore.) and a user in Ohio has sent me a picture of Auriga running on his iPad. StyleTap is about to release an emulator for Android and I'm enlisted to get a beta version. I'll try to get a 7" Android tablet with a resistive screen to use in a pouch; they're the cheapest models, we'll have to see how well they perform underground.

Concerning batteries, aside from early Palm models that operated on AAA batteries and the high-end (750$) rugged MEZ1500 from Aceeca, Palm OS PDAs have a sealed-in battery. You may usually replace it by removing a few screws, but it cannot be called "swappable". Still, you can find cheap battery-powered emergency chargers on eBay or build one yourself. Aceeca's PDA32 double-capacity battery will last about 20 hours on a single charge.

Feature-wise, Auriga has everything you need to survey and sketch underground. Sketching is pretty much pencil-like, with the ability to edit curves, just like you would do on paper, with the benefit of an automatic eraser when replacing part of a curve. I'm currently implementing fills and line types to speed up sketching. All this can be exported in SVG or DXF, while the raw survey data can be exported back and forth with Compass, VisualTopo and a few others. On my desk is a project of a multi-platform batch converter to more cave survey formats.

Regarding the DistoX, Auriga can retrieve its data over Bluetooth. The calibration feature is a standalone program downloadable from my website. I have a beta version that displays the raw calibration data (as received form the DistoX) and saves it on the SD card as a "standard" .cal file. I must perform more tests on this and send the resulting file to Beat (DistoX maker) for validation.

You may read articles and view short videos on Auriga through my website. There's even a pre-loaded emulator that runs under Windows to let you play with the software before you get a PDA.

I expect to be at the NSS Convention in WV in June and present something about sketching.

Regards,

Luc,

That is great that Auriga is adding line types. Just a floor drop and ceiling drop line styles would be wonderful and add greatly to the utility. I always wished for that in PocketTopo (which is a simple program compared to Auriga).

In addition to giving a paper, I would like to suggest that you run an Auriga workshop (or multiple workshops - probably can't have too many people at one time). I bet Howard will find you a time (or times) and place for that as part of the cartography program. By workshop, I mean a hands on session. Have people bring PDAs (I can supply 3 Palms if needed, and 3 Disto Xs to be used with them) and take each person through the process of using Auriga. You could draw a map on a chalkboard with typical cave features and take everyone through the process of setting up their survey, connecting to the Disto X, taking shots, drawing the sketch, and saving and exporting the data. It would be a good training session, people could get their questions answered as they try to use it and it may increase the number of Auriga users out there.

LWB wrote:As far as I know the options are PocketTopo and Auriga.

Please don't forget QTopo from Marco Corvi: http://marcocorvi.altervista.org/caving/distox/index.htm
There was a page http://www.incavedigitalsurvey.com/ but isn't active now.

LWB wrote:That is great that Auriga is adding line types. Just a floor drop and ceiling drop line styles would be wonderful and add greatly to the utility. I always wished for that in PocketTopo (which is a simple program compared to Auriga).

I was initially against this idea, feeling it was as easy to sketch a line and smaller perpendicular lines to draw a drop edge, but offering line patterns, and fills, would minimize the number of sketch elements currently displayed, thus uncluttering the corresponding internal array and speeding up the element search when tapping on screen: a polyline with a drop line attribute is a single element, instead of one for the polyline and as many small elements as there are small perpendicular lines. The same applies for a polygon (with or without a visible border) filled with dots or hatches (e.g. for sand or a pond). Of course, in DXF or SVG, line patterns and fills don't exist, so every single piece of line or dot will be individually exported by Auriga. I hope to demonstrate that at the upcoming NSS Convention.

LWB wrote:In addition to giving a paper, I would like to suggest that you run an Auriga workshop (or multiple workshops - probably can't have too many people at one time).

Multiple workshops? How do I get to attend other sessions and go caving ;)

Actually, I gave so many talks and extensive live demos at NSS conventions, if someone if still hesitating to use Auriga, I don't see why yet another workshop would change his/her mind. In fact, my best users are self-taught. I'd rather conduct a question period for advanced users.

For those interested, here's a a quick 10-question survey to better know current or potential Auriga users and their use of the software. I had initially sent it to the Auriga e-mail list. Don't hesitate to redistribute on your preferred lists.

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/LW2GSCD