Survey Instrument assistance needed!

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Re: Survey Instrument assistance needed!

Postby Extremeophile » Jan 9, 2012 3:37 pm

Rick Brinkman wrote:
Extremeophile wrote:I'm a big fan of this technique recommended by Marc Ohms. I've done this to all of my instruments.

http://www.caves.org/section/sacs/rr/suuntos.pdf



I'd like to see pictures of the final result.

Here's what they look like. I now have 2 more Tandems that have had this treatment. The raised edge is the Lexan window cover. The Tandems still fit in their Nylon case, but it's a tight fit.


Image
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Re: Survey Instrument assistance needed!

Postby sideshow » Jun 11, 2012 8:58 pm

Well, purchased the PM-5 and KB14 separately, made some sexy cases for them, and took them underground over memorial day over in the good ol' dripping springs escarpment. Unfortunately only got 78.8 ft, but they worked like a charm the whole time! :laughing:
Guess I need to find some surveying/ors over closer to home (OR) to justify my purchase.

my work, which I purchased them through, by accident bought an extra set, so I'm trying to help them find people to buy them. stay tuned for a post over in the marketplace once I creep up to the 15 post barrier.
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Re: Survey Instrument assistance needed!

Postby gindling » Jun 13, 2012 8:45 am

I have used Mark Ohms style instruments at Wind Cave and the Plasti-dip is indeed a good protection and the color coding works great if you use single instruments. Clear Plasti-dip is readily available on the internets. You could also use a heatgun and large size shrink tubes/wrap like used in electronics.
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Re: Survey Instrument assistance needed!

Postby sideshow » Jun 13, 2012 9:28 pm

Whoa! I hadn't thought about coating! hmmm. My homemade cases are nice, but the dip looks beautiful. and color coding! that seems perfect. I've got some time before the next trip, so maybe I'll look into that!
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Re: Survey Instrument assistance needed!

Postby Martin Sluka » Jun 15, 2012 4:34 am

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Re: Survey Instrument assistance needed!

Postby kdxn » Jun 15, 2012 5:12 am

Fluke 424D
IP54 protection, not waterproof
Memory for 20 measurements
No Bluetooth
Compass specification not given, describes it as "heading" capability
User calibration required.
Price US$375
Interesting but suspect the compass specification will not be good enough for cave surveying.

There is a low cost Clino/Compass combo unit available from SAC model NS1620 available from CPC at Farnell.
http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/displayProdu ... llbrochure

Cave Surveying Options - ( Not a complete list !):
1. SAC NS1620 or equivalent Compass/Clino combo or separates plus 30m tape measure and waterproof paper notepad
$$ Inexpensive, tape measure will get gritted up and eventually fail.

2. SAC NS1620 plus Disto DXT and waterproof paper notepad.
$$$ DXT has water resistance. Add some reflective tape to the notepad cover to improve Disto distance.

3. SAC NS1620 or Suunto KB14 or KB20 or equivalent Compass plus Disto X310 and waterproof paper notepad.
$$$ Disto X310 has water resistance and built-in tilt sensor so only need a compass.

4. DistoX and waterproof paper notepad or water protected PDA
$$$ DistoX not water resistant, needs to be protected. All-in-one measurement reduces measurement time and does not require getting your eye to the instrument, useful in confined spaces. Straight to digital option using Bluetooth link to PDA running free Cave Surveying drawing software eg. Auriga, PocketTopo. Alternatively book everything on paper in the cave then Bluetooth download the DistoX memory to Laptop or PDA when you get to the surface to reduce transcription errors.

5.TruePulse 360B or 360R
$$$$ Very expensive. Extra long range for really big caves. 360B not very water resistant. 360R has better water resistance.
Has Bluetooth but unknown if they interface to the available PDA cave surveying software.

6. 3D scanners
$$$$$$ Lots of money, lots of time, lots of risk - you must be mad.

Other gizmos that have and are still being used by some include the DUSI and Shetland Attack Pony.
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Re: Survey Instrument assistance needed!

Postby Crockett » Jun 15, 2012 6:12 pm

Subject to debate but I find it more difficult to use a DistoX in a confined space than a sighting instrument. Maybe it is just harder to cheat and it tempts you into attempting harder shots. Also, is anybody anywhere actually using a DUSI for cave survey? Thanks for the thoughtful comparative list.
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Re: Survey Instrument assistance needed!

Postby Martin Sluka » Jun 16, 2012 1:48 am

Just to make the list more complete:
- topofil Vulcain! http://www.groupe-speleo-vulcain.com/images/boite-topo.jpg
- there are cavers still using mining compass set like this one: http://www.breithaupt.de/en/products/measuring-instruments-for-quarries/mining-compass/comta/
- geological compass as this one http://www.breithaupt.de/en/products/magnetic-compasses/geological-compasses/gekom/

And this is quite interesting too http://www.breithaupt.de/en/products/magnetic-compasses/electronic-stratum-compass/tectronic/ :wink: On this page you'll find several very interesting tools. (no discussion about price)
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Re: Survey Instrument assistance needed!

Postby sideshow » Jun 17, 2012 6:43 pm

Hahah. Well - I certainly wouldn't turn down the chance to go survey with a topofil, but I might stick to slightly more modern equipment :grin:
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Re: Survey Instrument assistance needed!

Postby gindling » Oct 1, 2012 6:40 pm

Just got finished trying out the clear plasti-dip on my instruments and they work great! No lexan window needed and they lit up just fine through the plasti-dip. Its a little harder to read the numbers on the outside of the instruments but ive never found myself doing that unless I was measuring the dip of the rock or a fault or something.
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Re: Survey Instrument assistance needed!

Postby Extremeophile » Oct 2, 2012 9:58 am

gindling wrote:Just got finished trying out the clear plasti-dip on my instruments and they work great! No lexan window needed and they lit up just fine through the plasti-dip. Its a little harder to read the numbers on the outside of the instruments but ive never found myself doing that unless I was measuring the dip of the rock or a fault or something.

I actually feel the Lexan (polycarbonate) window is the critical component in protecting the instruments. It is possible to damage the compass or clino capsules by hitting them too hard on the bottom, but it's much more common to crack the clear window side of the capsule. These can be cracked from impacts or simply from applying too much pressure. I think the Plastidip only provides a small amount of protection against this type of damage. The aluminum case doesn't really need protection at all, unless you're concerned about aesthetics. The clear window side of the capsule is very slightly recessed below the level of the aluminum body, so when you add the Lexan window it does a lot to limit potential damage.

Here's the type of material you want:
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202038063/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=lexan&storeId=10051#.UGsANZg8B8E

For Tandems a 4"x2" rectangle covers both windows, and for individual instruments a 2"x2" square or 2" circle does the job. You can file the corners a little to get the window to be flush with the aluminum housing.

I was recently on a 24 hour survey trip and when we got to the destination we pulled Tandems out of two different caver's packs and both compass units were cracked. One was unusable but the other had just enough fluid left to allow us to survey, but with much difficulty. Neither instrument had this protection, and we were very close to abandoning the survey objectives.
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Re: Survey Instrument assistance needed!

Postby gindling » Oct 2, 2012 6:44 pm

I tend to keep my instruments in a well padded case in a plastic mini barrel so I'm not too worried about damage in transit, its more the clanking together for separate instruments while around the neck or just accidental knocking against rocks while surveying that I'm worried about.
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Re: Survey Instrument assistance needed!

Postby Extremeophile » Oct 3, 2012 9:52 am

gindling wrote:I tend to keep my instruments in a well padded case in a plastic mini barrel so I'm not too worried about damage in transit, its more the clanking together for separate instruments while around the neck or just accidental knocking against rocks while surveying that I'm worried about.

That makes sense. I often like to carry the instruments just in the nylon pouch to reduce the weight and bulk of a Pelican or Otterbox case. I generally also try to wrap them in my survey shirt or balaclava for extra padding. Of course using a hard case is much better insurance for long instrument life ... but some of us are slow learners. :doh:
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