I want to learn about mapping and surveying.

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I want to learn about mapping and surveying.

Postby GroundquestMSA » May 5, 2011 5:18 pm

Hi, anyone know any good sources of information on underground surveying & mapping? I know absolutely nothing on the subject and need the basics and beyond. Also, do I need to have vast amounts of capitol in order to pursue such a diversion?
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Re: I want to learn about mapping and surveying.

Postby boogercaver71 » May 5, 2011 6:49 pm

Join a Grotto in your area
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Re: I want to learn about mapping and surveying.

Postby MUD » May 5, 2011 9:09 pm

GroundquestMSA wrote:Hi, anyone know any good sources of information on underground surveying & mapping? I know absolutely nothing on the subject and need the basics and beyond. Also, do I need to have vast amounts of capitol in order to pursue such a diversion?

:big grin: You got a cave there in Adams County that needs surveyed?
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Re: I want to learn about mapping and surveying.

Postby GroundquestMSA » May 5, 2011 9:53 pm

Indeedy. The splendid caves of Adams county are of such unspeakable vastness it defies comprehension. I have traveled no less than 6o feet in more than five of these great passages...
No, my interests mainly lie in Tazewell Co. Va where there are a few respectable subterranean voids.
My local grotto does not exist. I have a job and a family and no time for trips to Cincinnati to associate with hole snobs in hopes of prying loose some of their jealously guarded knowledge. And so on.
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Re: I want to learn about mapping and surveying.

Postby Herman Miller » May 6, 2011 12:08 am

Hole Snobs :rofl: thats a new term for me :clap:
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Re: I want to learn about mapping and surveying.

Postby batrotter » May 6, 2011 5:13 am

The NSS book store has a great book titled "On Station". It's all about surveying and mapping. I would highly recommend it.
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Re: I want to learn about mapping and surveying.

Postby caveflower » May 6, 2011 6:18 am

My local grotto does not exist. I have a job and a family and no time for trips to Cincinnati to associate with hole snobs in hopes of prying loose some of their jealously guarded knowledge. And so on.


:rofl: :rofl: :clap: :clap: :laughing: :laughing:

:funny post:

That's all I have to say. I feel for ya bud.
Caving is fun but people are always more important.
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Re: I want to learn about mapping and surveying.

Postby trogman » May 6, 2011 10:23 am

Te best way to learn about surveying is by hanging out with others who are doing survey trips. Volunteer to help, pull tape, hold the light on stations, etc. That's the way that I learned. Unfortunately,that might require linking up with the "Hole Snobs" in the nearest grotto, or whoever else you can join up with. On Station is a good resource, but nothing is a better teacher than experience.

As far as financial expenditures, surveying can be a bit expensive, depending on how deep you get into it. If you shop carefully on Ebay, you can get a combination compass / clino for between $50 and $100. I just picked one up myself for $56. Search for "Suunto Tandem," and if you are buying a used one, make sure that it has no air bubbles in it. A 100' reel tape measure is needed-make sure you get one with decimal feet marked on it. (Engineers scale) You should be able to pick one up for around $15. That should be enough to get you started.

Good luck with your pursuit!

Trogman :helmet:
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Re: I want to learn about mapping and surveying.

Postby nathanroser » May 6, 2011 10:25 am

Herman Miller wrote:Hole Snobs :rofl: thats a new term for me :clap:


It seems people are jealous of cavers whether they are elite experts or a bunch of goofy dirty people. I would greatly take offense at being called a hole snob, but take pride in labels such as dirty cave dweller, troglodyte, and mud crawler.

And between you Tazewell County, VA there are plenty of other great caving areas in West Virginia as well. Or there are absolutely fabulous Ohio caves waiting to be found.
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Re: I want to learn about mapping and surveying.

Postby GroundquestMSA » May 6, 2011 10:44 am

I go to Tazewell often because my grandfather lives there and I take him with me.
Much thanks for the help so far.
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Re: I want to learn about mapping and surveying.

Postby JR-Orion » May 6, 2011 12:01 pm

On Station is a great guide
Suunto Tandem all-in-one compass and clino
Open reel measuring tape
Survey book, like so-
http://www.innermountainoutfitters.net/ ... 221&brand=
(or some sort of notebook with Rite in the Rain paper)
Compass and mechanical pencil
Maybe a few fishing bobber lights like these-
http://www.lindyfishingtackle.com/produ ... ryandlight
(to temporarily mark and light up survey stations- I stick the light to the cave wall with a little clod of mud)

And something to more permanently mark the survey stations. I've seen people using flagging tape + permanent marker, plastic disks-
http://www.berntsen.com/Go-Shopping/Sur ... itemID/831
and / or a paint marker to write the station right on the wall.

Here's a nice online guide-
http://www.nps.gov/archive/wica/explori ... d_cave.htm

edit- Out of that stuff, the Suunto will be your main expense. And from what I've seen a three person survey team is ideal.
Letting the days go by / water flowing underground
Into the blue again / in the silent water
Under the rocks and stones / there is water underground.
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Re: I want to learn about mapping and surveying.

Postby HKalnitz » May 6, 2011 6:37 pm

Hi
I guess I am one of those hole snobs seeing how I live in Cincinnati. Here is all my jealously guarded surveying info:
http://www.cavecartography.com
On this link under Survey training you will find an entire course that we gave to the grotto and any other snob that happened by.
Course you are welcome to join us at a meeting or a outing in kentucky where we do a bunch of surveying. We are planning to have a class and do some survey in one or another supersecret cave. Alien snobs are always welcome
Howard Kalnitz
Greater Cincinnati grotto cartography chair
The NSS needs Cavers more then Cavers need the NSS
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Re: I want to learn about mapping and surveying.

Postby Bob Thrun » May 6, 2011 9:34 pm

The most readily available book on cave mapping is On Station, published by the NSS. It is a bit much to dump on a beginner all at once. There is a slim book, Cave Surveying by Anthony J. Day, put out by the BCRA. It does not have enough pictures showing how to do things and it is too wound up with Survey Grades. The best short publication is the chapter in the 1999 CRF Personnel Manual. This does not get much sales promotion. I only just learned about the PowerPoint presentations that Howard Kalnitz prepared.

I suggest you go into a few caves with maps to learn how to read a map and decide what features you want to see on a cave map. Choose small caves because the maps for large caves are often reduced to fit on a sheet of paper.
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Re: I want to learn about mapping and surveying.

Postby rlboyce » May 6, 2011 9:56 pm

HKalnitz wrote:Hi
I guess I am one of those hole snobs seeing how I live in Cincinnati. Here is all my jealously guarded surveying info:
http://www.cavecartography.com
On this link under Survey training you will find an entire course that we gave to the grotto and any other snob that happened by.
Course you are welcome to join us at a meeting or a outing in kentucky where we do a bunch of surveying. We are planning to have a class and do some survey in one or another supersecret cave. Alien snobs are always welcome
Howard Kalnitz
Greater Cincinnati grotto cartography chair


Very nice website!
Happiness can be measured in mud/in².
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