DistoX boards for the DistoDXT models

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Re: DistoX boards for the DistoDXT models

Postby GEM » Aug 6, 2011 3:56 pm

[/quote]
WVCaver2011 wrote:Well, unfortunately Beat has worked with the prototypes and has encountered some problems. Read below.

"Sorry for the additional delay.

Things are not as good as they should be.
I have a prototype which works well at home but behaves badly in practice.
I made extensive tests in a cave this weekend. Even though I calibrated
the device successfully immediately before the survey, the results are off by
up to 10 degrees.
I have to find what is going wrong...

Regards

Beat"


Hi, Beat (WVCaver2011 can you forward?)
Does the headlights influence the system behavior?
After a long quest I found that my headlights simply puts my camera flash (580 EX II) on a random behavior !!!
Best of luck
(because we at http://www.gesmo.org are waiting to buy one of those DistoX boards)
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Re: DistoX boards for the DistoDXT models

Postby szifon » Aug 14, 2011 12:56 am

Is there any news?
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Re: DistoX boards for the DistoDXT models

Postby WVCaver2011 » Aug 15, 2011 1:03 pm

Unfortunately it doesnt look like we will be getting a DistoX anytime really soon because there's something wrong with the prototype keeping its calibration under 10 degrees. This is the latest from Beat:

"There is not much progress so far.
I tried to move the magnetic sensor farer away from the battery
but the result is as bad as before. I am a bit disappointed but I
will continue to search for a solution.

Regards

Beat"

If any of you have any ideas let me know. Wasnt there a calibration problem with certain batteries in the last DistoX? I remember reading a post on that somewhere.
There's nothing that makes me more excited than finding a place underground that no one has ever seen or been in!

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Re: DistoX boards for the DistoDXT models

Postby Martin Sluka » Aug 15, 2011 1:26 pm

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Re: DistoX boards for the DistoDXT models

Postby WVCaver2011 » Aug 15, 2011 8:34 pm




HAHAHAHHAHA!!! Not with a $7995 price tag!!! :yikes: :yikes: :yikes:
There's nothing that makes me more excited than finding a place underground that no one has ever seen or been in!

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Re: DistoX boards for the DistoDXT models

Postby rlboyce » Aug 15, 2011 8:56 pm

That thing is huge!
Happiness can be measured in mud/in².
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Re: DistoX boards for the DistoDXT models

Postby WVCaver2011 » Aug 16, 2011 4:41 pm

rlboyce wrote:That thing is huge!


Yep, and wouldnt do well with any cave that had crawling..... That's pretty much all of the caves down this way..
There's nothing that makes me more excited than finding a place underground that no one has ever seen or been in!

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Re: DistoX boards for the DistoDXT models

Postby WVCaver2011 » Aug 16, 2011 9:07 pm

Some of you had issues with the calibration of the last DistoX due to the type of batteries present. Anybody figure out which batteries were best for keeping the calibration under 2 degrees? :shrug:
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Re: DistoX boards for the DistoDXT models

Postby LWB » Aug 16, 2011 10:54 pm

I used lithium as Beat recommended.

I've had issues lately with seemingly good calibrations that did not pass the 1 degree standard on the compass test course (CTC). I set up an "in cave" approximation of the compass test course (azimuth angle about the same) and I have no trouble staying within a degree in the cave. At the moment I'm inclined to blame the the new metal roofed building not far from the CTC for affecting the magnetic fields. However, the Suuntos are not having trouble with foresight and backsight staying within a degree. But the Disto X seems to be about twice as sensitive as a Suunto. The light that affects the Suunto at 4 inches affects the Disto at about 8 inches.

Of the 4 Disto Xs I calibrate regularly - one has gone on the fritz. It will calibrate and pass the in cave tests one day and fail the same tests the following day. It is erratic behavior.
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Re: DistoX boards for the DistoDXT models

Postby LWB » Sep 4, 2011 9:50 pm

We just had another round of testing of Disto Xs - and we have confirmed that the Compass Test Course is the major issue. After careful checking by several Suunto readers it is clear that our CTC is has a problem. The Suuntos (with the best compass readers) were getting slightly over 1 degree error in foresight and backsight. Now plans are being made to modify/move the course. The Disto Xs are even more sensitive than the Suuntos to the problem.

One odd thing is that all 4 Disto Xs give the best results on this CTC (with its new problem) with the instrument oriented display down (which is the hardest orientation to shoot).

Checking with a metal detector revealed numerous hits near the post closest to the new building (at about 4 inch depth). And the metal roof is certainly a possible contributor.

We used several Disto Xs this weekend for surveying with excellent results.

Another interesting result was that before re-calibrating the 4 Disto Xs, I ran them through the Cave CTC and two of them still tested out within a degree for foresight / backsight (repeated 3 times for each of the 4 instrument orientations). The other two Disto Xs were 2-3 degrees off. To my surprise, the instrument that had behaved oddly in July (losing its calibration after a day and having one failed calibration attempt) was one of those that maintained a good calibration over a month. Three of the instruments got new lithium batteries in July and the other got new batteries in August. The one with the newest batteries changed the most over a month.

The extra sensitivity of the Disto X is very important to remember when you are surveying. Unlike reading a Suunto, the Disto X may be close to many different metal items on your body. Most cave packs have non-brass metal D rings and metal strap hooks. And you may have metal objects in your pack. Metal zippers, watches, your helmet or boots could be problems. The batteries for your lamp may be the worst problem, but it is not the only problem. Keep all metal away from the Disto X - and about twice as far away as you would for a Suunto.

I'm looking forward to testing the new Disto X board (or even a prototype) when it becomes available.
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Re: DistoX boards for the DistoDXT models

Postby szifon » Dec 5, 2011 7:06 am

I would like to find a new DistoDXT-X :) under the christmas tree.
Is it possible? What do you think?
Has Anybody heard anything about Beat recently?
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Re: DistoX boards for the DistoDXT models

Postby LWB » Dec 6, 2011 12:01 am

Beat has not resolved the problem yet. He said he has experimented with different sensors and different sensor positions without much luck. The new Disto X board is very tiny and the batteries are in the middle of the DXT instead of at the end. Impossible to get the 3 axis magnetometer very far away from them. Personally I think the answer is to run an external battery pack, but Beat doesn't care for that idea. It does complicate the conversion if you have to do a mod for an external battery pack. I like the idea, because I think calibration will then last longer than a month (which is what I have been getting with the 4 A-3 Disto Xs that I regularly calibrate).

The DXT has a magnetic switch and a magnet in the plastic bracket on the end. Those have to be removed for Disto X conversion also. The pins and springs on that bracket are magnetic as well.

I'm not expecting any news until after New Years. But, you could get the DXT for Christmas. It is a nice Disto for caving (like the A3 is is great for LRUDs since it will display 4 numbers at once).

Image
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Re: DistoX boards for the DistoDXT models

Postby WVCaver2011 » Dec 6, 2011 10:20 am

LWB wrote:Beat has not resolved the problem yet. He said he has experimented with different sensors and different sensor positions without much luck. The new Disto X board is very tiny and the batteries are in the middle of the DXT instead of at the end. Impossible to get the 3 axis magnetometer very far away from them. Personally I think the answer is to run an external battery pack, but Beat doesn't care for that idea. It does complicate the conversion if you have to do a mod for an external battery pack. I like the idea, because I think calibration will then last longer than a month (which is what I have been getting with the 4 A-3 Disto Xs that I regularly calibrate).

The DXT has a magnetic switch and a magnet in the plastic bracket on the end. Those have to be removed for Disto X conversion also. The pins and springs on that bracket are magnetic as well.

I'm not expecting any news until after New Years. But, you could get the DXT for Christmas. It is a nice Disto for caving (like the A3 is is great for LRUDs since it will display 4 numbers at once).

Image


Have you brought up the reasoning behind you and several others wanting the battery pack outside to Beat? If not, then I suggest you do so because I dont see him getting anywhere with the battery pack on the inside... I've tried emailing him once a month but last month I just left him alone because he didnt seem to be making any progress with the Disto X the previous several months. I hope he makes some progress soon. It always removes my doubts when he accomplishes something. It's just unfortunate that it's taking this long. However, I'm willing to wait. :tonguecheek:
There's nothing that makes me more excited than finding a place underground that no one has ever seen or been in!

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Re: DistoX boards for the DistoDXT models

Postby LWB » Dec 6, 2011 4:51 pm

Yes, Beat know my views on external batteries - and I understand his reasons for not wanting to go there. And Beat thinks testing with an external battery makes sense. He just doesn't like it as a long term solution.

So I plan to test with an external battery, that should prove if the quick loss of calibration is due to the batteries. Hoped to have data by now, but had a bluetooth problem. Can't calibrate without bluetooth working.
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Re: DistoX boards for the DistoDXT models

Postby Martin Sluka » Dec 6, 2011 5:50 pm

LWB wrote:So I plan to test with an external battery, that should prove if the quick loss of calibration is due to the batteries.


I used external batteries with my compass several years before DistoX. Very primitive battery pack, no waterproof, but no any problem. Check: http://www.cavediggers.com/MartinSlukaCL/

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