DistoX boards for the DistoDXT models

Techniques, equipment and issues. Also visit the NSS Survey & Cartography Section.

Moderator: Moderators

Re: DistoX boards for the DistoDXT models

Postby Martin Sluka » Dec 12, 2011 1:11 am

LWB wrote:Bob,That is interesting about the zinc carbon with no steel shell. Was that what was recommended for the marine compass?


They were my favorite. But there is very difficult to find such batteries now and they are quite dangerous if one forget them in the Disto, they are able to destroy it - the substance from battery may flow out.
User avatar
Martin Sluka
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 380
Joined: Mar 17, 2006 11:28 am
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
Name: Martin Sluka
NSS #: 29010
  

Re: DistoX boards for the DistoDXT models

Postby Martin Sluka » Dec 12, 2011 2:38 am

Check this ones, the product manager told me, they are no magnetically: http://www.bateria.cz/products/primary-batteries/zinc-chloride-batteries.htm

or http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/carbonzinc_appman.pdf but not able to find them on their web.
User avatar
Martin Sluka
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 380
Joined: Mar 17, 2006 11:28 am
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
Name: Martin Sluka
NSS #: 29010
  

Zinc/Chloride batteries

Postby Martin Sluka » Dec 15, 2011 4:37 pm

Check pictures.
The link to this super-babies is: http://www.bateria.cz/products/primary- ... r-r03.html :grin:

10 $ for one pc? :wink:


Image DistoX alone

Image DistoX + Lions

Image DistoX + Populars
User avatar
Martin Sluka
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 380
Joined: Mar 17, 2006 11:28 am
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
Name: Martin Sluka
NSS #: 29010
  

Re: DistoX boards for the DistoDXT models

Postby LWB » Dec 31, 2011 5:59 pm

Bluetooth is working! Well that part is the good news. Encountered a weird problem trying to calibrate - and am waiting to hear back from Beat on what might be the cause. Not sure if it is hardware or software.

But I did calibrate 4 A3 Disto Xs yesterday and all 4 passed the (new) compass test course! First time that has happened.

But here are photos of the DXT Disto X in fixture and on testing tripod and showing the external battery pack.



Image

Image

Image

Image
LWB
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 117
Joined: Oct 29, 2007 7:36 pm
  

Re: DistoX boards for the DistoDXT models

Postby John Lovaas » Dec 31, 2011 7:55 pm

I see Ace Hardware still carries AAA and AA carbon zinc batteries- bulk price is about 90 cents each. I'll have to stop by my local Ace.

Lynn- is there a new compass course at HV?
imbecile sheepherder.
User avatar
John Lovaas
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 590
Joined: Sep 6, 2005 9:10 am
Location: Woodstock, Illinois
  

Re: DistoX boards for the DistoDXT models

Postby LWB » Dec 31, 2011 8:18 pm

There is a new post. The post closest to the new building is no longer in use. Even the Suuntos couldn't get FS/BS to agree. A new post was positioned along the same line - toward the shed.

I'm hoping Tom will have some thoughts on what may be the problem with the new Disto X - But he is not due out of the cave until 2am (and you know Tom's reputation on sign out times). I'm guessing it is in a connection.
LWB
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 117
Joined: Oct 29, 2007 7:36 pm
  

Re: DistoX boards for the DistoDXT models

Postby Extremeophile » Jan 2, 2012 4:23 pm

We surveyed in Mammoth Ridge on Saturday with one of Lynn's A3 Dixto X units and were able to survey 100 stations in a 16 hour trip (2041 feet). We only had to repeat backsight readings on maybe 7-8 shots to get both compass and clino FS/BS within 1 degree. This was very wet passage and the instrument worked flawlessly. I definitely need to get one of these once the bugs are worked out of the new boards. You still need a fast sketcher, but the sketcher isn't always the bottle-neck.

Thanks Lynn!
User avatar
Extremeophile
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 761
Joined: Dec 7, 2009 7:37 pm
Location: Littleton, CO
Name: Derek Bristol
NSS #: 34941
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Colorado Grotto
  

Re: DistoX boards for the DistoDXT models

Postby LWB » Jan 2, 2012 6:11 pm

We did some experiments at the cave to try to troubleshoot the new DXT board. Ruled out some things, but lacked a scope to do any more testing. We did hear back from Beat today - he explained why we were getting the strange results. So Tom knows what to look for.

Hopefully Tom will find and fix the problem quickly and we will finally be ready to calibrate. The external battery and the fixture mod worked well, so we should be able to get a good calibration. Then just have to test to see how quickly it degrades. Hopefully very slowly with the external battery. Plan will be to calibrate, then take the data for the theodolite comparison. Repeat the theodolite comparison at very time intervals. And repeat compass test course when on the surface.

Derek is the demon sketcher - not only is he lightning fast, he produces very high quality detailed sketches. Not many can survey faster than Derek can sketch...
LWB
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 117
Joined: Oct 29, 2007 7:36 pm
  

Re: DistoX boards for the DistoDXT models

Postby WVCaver2011 » Jan 3, 2012 6:58 pm

Im liking the sound of progress!! Keep up the good work!
There's nothing that makes me more excited than finding a place underground that no one has ever seen or been in!

NSS#60861
wvcaver2011
User avatar
WVCaver2011
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 551
Joined: Nov 18, 2008 4:25 pm
Location: Brandywine, WV
Name: Allen Dove
NSS #: 60861
Primary Grotto Affiliation: WVUSG
  

Re: DistoX boards for the DistoDXT models

Postby WVCaver2011 » Jan 19, 2012 10:31 pm

Anything from Tom yet?
There's nothing that makes me more excited than finding a place underground that no one has ever seen or been in!

NSS#60861
wvcaver2011
User avatar
WVCaver2011
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 551
Joined: Nov 18, 2008 4:25 pm
Location: Brandywine, WV
Name: Allen Dove
NSS #: 60861
Primary Grotto Affiliation: WVUSG
  

Re: DistoX boards for the DistoDXT models

Postby LWB » Jan 25, 2012 9:20 am

Not yet, he said he was going to look at it Monday, but since I haven't heard back, he probably didn't get to it. He knows when the next testing opportunity is, so it isn't high priority yet!
LWB
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 117
Joined: Oct 29, 2007 7:36 pm
  

Re: DistoX boards for the DistoDXT models

Postby LWB » Mar 24, 2012 9:57 pm

We finally got some testing done on the DXT. Still have not found the trouble with the board Tom populated, but Beat sent the one he had tested and found to loose calibration about 30 minutes after calibrating. Beat has a new design he is testing. The thinking was that the batteries, which are in the middle of the DXT, and much closer to the sensors were the source of the calibration not lasting. The magnetic field of batteries will change during discharge and the close proximity would amplify the problem. With the A3 Disto X, it has been my experience that calibration lasts about a month - but the batteries are further away from the sensors.

Here are the two boards. Tom's on left, Beat's on the right. The big chip is the bluetooth module.
Image

Here is the board being installed
Image

Here is closeup of the open DXT with board.
Image

Tom installed Beat's board and after a few troubles with the HP IPAQ and bluetooth (nothing do to with the DXT) we calibrated. I'll spare you the details, but it took 3 tries to get a good calibration. The problem turned out to be my fault (important to not take a reading too quickly after turning on the laser during calibration) and Beat explained what was happening.

Here is DXT Disto X in test fixture with remote battery pack. We placed the battery on the floor (of the cave, about 3.5 ft away from the Disto) during testing. We did check the influence of the battery pack and wire on the Disto X. As long as the battery pack was 6 inches away we did not detect any impact. So we were pretty certain any trouble would not be coming from the batteries
Image

After uploading the good calibration, we ran the theodolite comparison test. On the usual scale it looked pretty good.
Image

Unfortunately, there were outliers - way far off outliers:
Image

We are still mystified about the cause of these. We ran the cave compass test course and although about 85% of the time the numbers were good, the other 15% of the time the numbers were wildly off - like 10-22 degrees off in azimuth. Beat says it is not the same issue of taking data too quickly.

Roughly 2 hours later I repeated the Theo test:
Image

This shows the same kind of drift that Beat experienced. And it is obviously not because of the batteries, since in our test the batteries are far away. Cause is still unknown. And yes, the magnet and magnetic switch in the DXT were removed, as were the hinge pins and spring on the bracket (entire bracket removed). There was no screw in the corner of the case nearest the magnetometer chip. Any thoughts on what could be causing a changing magnetic field within the DXT itself would be appreciated.
LWB
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 117
Joined: Oct 29, 2007 7:36 pm
  

Re: DistoX boards for the DistoDXT models

Postby Crockett » Mar 25, 2012 7:18 am

Brute force shielding? Maybe a spray or very thin foil between the board and the Disto. (That's a suggested solution not a suggested cause :wink: )
Crockett
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 243
Joined: Feb 5, 2006 7:10 pm
Location: Pineville, Kentucky
Name: Mike Crockett
NSS #: 33730
Primary Grotto Affiliation: East Tennessee Grotto
  

Re: DistoX boards for the DistoDXT models

Postby LWB » Mar 25, 2012 11:40 am

The problem is that shielding also shields the sensor from the Earth's magnetic field.

It's a tricky problem, but first we have to figure out the cause.

There were 2 pieces of good news in the test.

One was that I now know the cause of occasional calibration failures on the 4 A3 Disto Xs that I calibration regularly. That will be a big help.

The second is that we know that the batteries are not the cause of the problem with the rapid calibration drift in the DXT Disto X.

An interesting question are the outliers part of the calibration drift problem or something else. I'm inclined to think they are related.
LWB
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 117
Joined: Oct 29, 2007 7:36 pm
  

Re: DistoX boards for the DistoDXT models

Postby Martin Sluka » Mar 25, 2012 4:19 pm

LWB wrote:An interesting question are the outliers part of the calibration drift problem or something else. I'm inclined to think they are related.


may you try the same test but with board on distance from Disto DXT body (longer cables)?

m.
User avatar
Martin Sluka
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 380
Joined: Mar 17, 2006 11:28 am
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
Name: Martin Sluka
NSS #: 29010
  

PreviousNext

Return to Survey and Cartography Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

cron