Any surveyers somewhat close to MI?

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Re: Any surveyers somewhat close to MI?

Postby onebat » Jan 24, 2011 10:27 pm

Amy,
There's some awesome women cavers in the Middle Tennessee area.
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Re: Any surveyers somewhat close to MI?

Postby self-deleted_user » Jan 24, 2011 11:58 pm

Hey thanks for all the replies! This thread exploded and I missed it.

I don't know who or exactly what DUG (detroit urban not the ohio one) is and I'll probably never find out haha. And yes, I TOTALLY AGREE with all the "Get the skills, get the training, then go on trips" that has been said (did I not say that earlier? I thought I did maybe not) HOWEVER my issue arises when NO chances are given for me to do so. It ends me in a Catch-22. I can't go since I don't have the skills. I can't get the skills since I can't go.

I'm not stupid, I know I suck at caving next to basically anyone. I dont take risks, I have a perfectionist streak that I want to learn everything I can about something and so I can get really good at it. I am a fast learner (ask anyone who has worked with me!) But, I can't learn if NO ONE WILL TEACH ME. Which is the issue bit. I have found someone to teach me vertical. That took months though to find. And yeah, living in a non-caving area really inhibits the whole process.

Wyndotte, thanks for the suggestion, sure if you could pass on my email or something to them that'd be great. 4 hrs is shorter than the trip up north, if I could hook up rides from there, that'd be awesome. (And, actually, just found out I might get to go on a trip down thataway next month?? something like that. I dunno if it will happen, I was told "I thought about inviting you if this trip happens" sort of thing, and it would include some vertical and some survey :) I'm hoping it happens and I'm invited, but I understand if I'm not - even if it does happen.)

SMG seems like an awesome group, I know some members and they are cool peeps =) However I'll be looking more south for my job, like Atlanta area, so probably end up in...DCG? That's the one by Atlanta iirc. Which is cool, I know peeps in that one too. And yeah, it basically all boils down to, yet again, I live in no-cave-country. Too bad ya'all can't spare a few and move them up here! haha. Sadly, who knows when I'll be getting my masters...It's been pushed back again =( it's hard to start looking for a job when I don't have the degree I will have in hand nor a definitive date of completion. It WILL HAPPEN THOUGH. I need caves in my life! Haha I should change my facebook status to "in a relationship...with caves...and it's complected" :tonguecheek:
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Re: Any surveyers somewhat close to MI?

Postby Extremeophile » Jan 29, 2011 11:58 pm

tncaver wrote: But if you are wanting to be "special" and secretive and cliquish, and elitist (at least they think they are), then CRF might be right for you.


The CRF isn't "elitist", they are just better cavers than you. Some people see this as an over-inflated ego, but if anything their egos are underinflated when compared to their massive talent and skills. This is known as the "Theory of Caving Relativity" and is explained by the equation E=mc2, where E is ego and mc is of course Mammoth Cave (measured in units of miles).

No... just kidding. Spike is right, the CRF is made up of "normal" cavers - at least as normal as any other cavers I know. All that is required is that you cave competently (i.e. safely and with low impact) and that you can contribute to the project, and there are many ways to contribute.
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Re: Any surveyers somewhat close to MI?

Postby tncaver » Jan 30, 2011 8:24 am

derekbristol wrote:
tncaver wrote: But if you are wanting to be "special" and secretive and cliquish, and elitist (at least they think they are), then CRF might be right for you.


The CRF isn't "elitist", they are just better cavers than you. Some people see this as an over-inflated ego, but if anything their egos are underinflated when compared to their massive talent and skills. This is known as the "Theory of Caving Relativity" and is explained by the equation E=mc2, where E is ego and mc is of course Mammoth Cave (measured in units of miles).

No... just kidding. Spike is right, the CRF is made up of "normal" cavers - at least as normal as any other cavers I know. All that is required is that you cave competently (i.e. safely and with low impact) and that you can contribute to the project, and there are many ways to contribute.


Unfortunately the two CRF members I met were elitist and have huge egos. They are however, very competent cavers. It's their attitude that I didn't care for. I'm sure the majority of the CRF cavers are a great bunch of guys (and gals). There are also a bunch of non CRF cavers who are a great bunch of guys and gals and
are great cavers. Unfortunately there are a few cavers who have enormous egos. One is known to have stated "you are now in the presence of greatness."
Far as I know, that particular individual is not CRF.
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Re: Any surveyers somewhat close to MI?

Postby Extremeophile » Jan 30, 2011 9:15 am

Then there are all those elitists down in Tennessee talking trash like "we have over 9,000 caves" and "we have like 192 caves over a mile".

You can't get away from it. I have to work with a bunch or elitists who openly discriminate on the basis of skill. I can't get promoted or make as much money because I don't work hard or don't know very much about my job... elitism out of control! :big grin:
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Re: Any surveyers somewhat close to MI?

Postby Jeff Bartlett » Jan 30, 2011 10:40 am

Considering that CRF will take basically anyone who's interested in helping survey Mammoth Cave or elsewhere, beginner or otherwise, it would be hard to make a case for the organization being elitist.
"Although it pains me to say it, in this case Jeff is right. Plan accordingly." --Andy Armstrong
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Re: Any surveyers somewhat close to MI?

Postby tncaver » Jan 30, 2011 12:46 pm

I have to agree with Jeff Bartlett. My experience was not with the organization itself, it was only with a couple of individual members and each was a separate
incident which had nothing to do with any CRF cave project. I'm sure the CRF is a fine organization. There is one thing I definitely like about them.
Their purpose as far as I know, is to explore and map caves. And I'm all in favor of that. Therefore I retract anything negative I may have said about CRF.
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Re: Any surveyers somewhat close to MI?

Postby Crockett » Jan 30, 2011 11:01 pm

Buy these books and study,
Buythisgear and built your skill,
Take these classes, learn, and apply,
Join thesegroups and support their projects,
Go to these events and participate,
Support the cause of others,
Draw others to your cause,
Find a cave and embrace it,
Give it what you can,
Then do it all again.
Grow old and wise,
Find new ways,
To do what you can,
For new caves,
Then do it all again,
And hope the passage never ends.

...you may need to travel away from home to do this but you will find home, and friends, and family where you go.
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Re: Any surveyers somewhat close to MI?

Postby self-deleted_user » Feb 23, 2011 10:10 pm

Kinda old thread but I am excited so bumping :)

It looks like in 2 weekends from now, I'll be learning to survey and surveying in Indiana! Interestingly, in talking to peeps I think the part I will *really* like is the computery stuff after (the actual making of the maps on the computer was what initially interested me in survey, actually). Compass doesn't seem like too hard of a program, and I already know Illustrator with all my graphic design work. The part I really wanted to learn to do was to put the maps together, so I guess the cartography bit is actually what I really want to learn. I love drawing and sketching and stuff though, so definitely want to learn every bit of it :D but I have a feeling the after parts on the computer is what I'm going to like the best!

:woohoo:

Also...someone this past weekend said they got paid to do the cartography bit once (and added they'd never do that again as they felt it wasn't fun to do it for a cave they'd never seen) but anyway...is that actually standard practice for people who survey and don't want to spend the time on the computer putting it all together? I mean, if I got good at it after I get some experience, is it something possible to make a few extra bucks so this poor grad student can cave more by computer caving putting the surveys together? How could it get better than that?! It'd basically be paying me to go caving so I can go caving some more if that's the case!
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Re: Any surveyers somewhat close to MI?

Postby Extremeophile » Feb 24, 2011 12:59 am

Check out Howard's excellent website: http://cavecartography.com/index.html

and look at the "Survey Training" tab for some good instructional presentations.

I've never heard of a caver paying another caver to draw up a map. I know a very few fortunate people who do get paid to draw cave maps, but they are NPS employees. Unfortunately it is very common for cavers to survey and not get around to the computer portion of the map making process. The result is many thousands of hours spent surveying and files are lost or left in a folder indefinitely. There are probably more miles of cave survey floating around out there that have never been drawn up than there are miles of survey that have been converted into finished maps. States that have an organized cave survey organization provide a way for surveyors and cartographers to archive data and pass it on.
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Re: Any surveyers somewhat close to MI?

Postby self-deleted_user » Feb 24, 2011 10:36 am

OOoh thanks a lot to sort through there! :kewl:
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Re: Any surveyers somewhat close to MI?

Postby ohiocaver » May 3, 2011 11:23 am

Not to speak for others, but here in Ohio Cleveland Grotto has been surveying in the Lake Erie islands and some other small caves in NW and NC Ohio. Contact Chad Waffen at Cleveland Grotto for info. I know of nothing planned immediately. And these are LITTLE caves.
You also might check the Indiana group with Dave Everton (Bloomington) which does major survey work in BIG caves just about every weekend (they were in NSS NEWS these past two issues). Not sure your experience level (as a caver) or how far away you'd be .... but I'm sure Dave would be willing to talk to you about your experience and expectations. Dave and his team are very knowledgeable.
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