Any surveyers somewhat close to MI?

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Any surveyers somewhat close to MI?

Postby self-deleted_user » Jan 10, 2011 7:41 pm

I really really really want to go on a survey trip...or two..or three...I dunno it seems like a fun thing to do! I'd love to help explore and map caves!
But considering no one here even caves, I have no clue where to find such people, it's not like there is a big booming active grotto that has survey peeps in it around here that I have found! I'd be happy with a grotto that actually did cave trips even.

So where are all you surveyors? And any chance you want help along on a trip or few? I don't know what I'm doing but I'm a quick study in field, there is a reason I'm a lab rat instead of writing papers all the time!
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Re: Any surveyers somewhat close to MI?

Postby Chads93GT » Jan 11, 2011 7:14 am

I've met several surveyors who live up north. The catch is they all goto Mammoth to survey. You would need to join the CRF for that, and the other problem with Mammoth is all expeditions are roughly once a month, and on the holidays. Granted some of them are hallmark holidays, but New years, July 4th, memorial day, labor day, bla bla, etc etc, are all expedition weekends. july has a week long expedition from one friday to the following sunday around the 4th, so its a huge push week of 9 days. Its and option. When people live where there are no surveyors, they have to travel to learn.
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Re: Any surveyers somewhat close to MI?

Postby self-deleted_user » Jan 11, 2011 10:46 am

Apparently that is what the Detroit Urban Grotto does - surveys a system in/part of/Mammoth/something like that. I've tried contacting them a few times since I started in June, and got a reply from them finally end of August, when I replied to them saying I didn't have any vertical experience I never heard back again. *shrugs* Well I guess that's kinda changed now, but that group has given me the huge impression of a tight-knit close very cliquey don't-let-anyone-else-in feel so really I don't even care to push into it at this point.

I'm not sure what the CRF is, I'll have to google that.

I'd be open to taking trips down to Mammoth for sure, if I could catch rides and carpool, and if there was anyone willing to have me along. =)
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Re: Any surveyers somewhat close to MI?

Postby Chads93GT » Jan 11, 2011 11:56 am

The CRF is the Cave Research Fondation,

http://www.cave-research.org/

CRF is who maps mammoth, among other caves.

lots of people goto mammoth from all over.
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Re: Any surveyers somewhat close to MI?

Postby Spike » Jan 11, 2011 6:07 pm

Don't give up, while you might not be smack in the middle of "cave country" there are cavers in your greater 300 mile radius neighborhood, caves too. As you've read by now on the forums, we can be a picky folk when it comes to who we spend out time with underground for various reasons. When you add surveying and exploration(not just exploring for fun, like a new city, but exploring in the first on the moon sense) it can be harder to network. Cavers in the middle of a decade long project have a large investment of blood sweat and tears they are hesitant to jepordize by taking a risk accepting someone unknown. It's not nessicarily personal. I've had my own projects where I was extremely selective in who I invited to help map and explore a cave. I've also had and been a part of "anyone with a pulse" projects. Often depends on the cave environment and the landowner situation.

While I'm no longer a college student, my grotto is a student grotto here at the local univeristy. The high turnover means I have to constantly teach, train, and trust new cavers. It's something I really do enjoy doing, seeing people get ate up with caving at the start of every semester. Seeing people read instruments for the first time, while it can be frustrating at times while keeping book in low wet places, does give one a sense of pride when they finially settle into a groove and get good at it. Plus they are always willing to check a lead when I'm feeling less than motivated. So while I have my old buds that I love to cave with, I'm always going on trips with new faces.

At any rate. Keep looking, try hooking up with people in Wisconsin, Iowa, Illinois, or Indiana that have a small cave project going. You will likely bump into one those CRF people that will invite you to come down to Mammoth for some expedition they are planning to go to.

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Re: Any surveyers somewhat close to MI?

Postby tncaver » Jan 11, 2011 8:04 pm

Sungura wrote:Apparently that is what the Detroit Urban Grotto does - surveys a system in/part of/Mammoth/something like that. I've tried contacting them a few times since I started in June, and got a reply from them finally end of August, when I replied to them saying I didn't have any vertical experience I never heard back again. *shrugs* Well I guess that's kinda changed now, but that group has given me the huge impression of a tight-knit close very cliquey don't-let-anyone-else-in feel so really I don't even care to push into it at this point.


Sungura, you have probably figured out the CRF. You will probably have a lot more fun (if that is what you want) caving with non CRF. But if you are wanting
to be "special" and secretive and cliquish, and elitist (at least they think they are), then CRF might be right for you. There are probably dozens of cave
survey projects in TAG that CRF never heard of or got invited to. For reasons....
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Re: Any surveyers somewhat close to MI?

Postby Chads93GT » Jan 11, 2011 10:45 pm

Awh Come on, go light on us CRF guys, Most everyone I know is a CRF member but we have a LARGE presence in missouri. Granted I don't actively survey with the CRF as I have my own things going on, I am a member and I have enjoyed the 1 survey trip I did in mammoth so far. If I know 50 missouri cavers, I would have to say 49 of them are in the CRF.
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Re: Any surveyers somewhat close to MI?

Postby Spike » Jan 11, 2011 11:50 pm

I'm in the CRF and I'm not afraid to say it. We are so secretive we post our newsletter with trip reports on the frontpage of our website, and publish all of our Ozark trips in the MSS Liason (state survey newsletter). I'm so cliquish I cave with folks from just about every grotto in the state and often on CRF trips with people I have never caved with before in my life. CRF does vett people before sending them off into the 390 mile long cave to be sure, but the hoop to jump through is a "can I trust you not to screw this up for everybody" hoop. Now CRF Ozarks, is show up and go caving and don't look like an idiot in front of the ranger, again. Seriously, though being involved in the local CRF projects is not hard, we do have to follow rules that "the man" lays down for us, but we have a lot of fun too. We do have objectives, goals, and structure, needed if you are going to fulfill a contract, and it's less free form caving. We do that on different weekends. After folks get to know you, they will tell you how they are going to Kentucky and that you should come along. That's what I do. While some are all CRF all the time, most of us are regular cavers caving all over the place who put on the CRF helmet every now and then.

Also last I check DUG was working in Fisher Ridge and had no affiliation with the CRF. Many CRF cavers that show up at Mammoth have no verticle gear or experience, so doesn's sound like CRF dissed her.

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Re: Any surveyers somewhat close to MI?

Postby tncaver » Jan 12, 2011 8:45 am

Maybe I've just run into a few bad apples. Every bushel will have one now and then. And I will say that most of the bad apples I've run into
were not CRF.
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Re: Any surveyers somewhat close to MI?

Postby Spike » Jan 12, 2011 10:06 am

That's a fair assesment tncaver. Caver's are full spectrum cross section of humanity and so is the CRF, so there are all types but most are just normal cavers.

Sugura,

I can see why DUG didn't jump on a chance to take you into Fisher Ridge, but perhaps they could have explained it better. You've not been caving too long and just now getting experience with vert gear. I've not been in the cave personally but I know there are some pits and domes like other caves in the area that require profencency in these skills. So it's kind of like someone with a learners permit asking to borrow the Porsche. Not that you couldn't drive it but someone could get hurt.
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Re: Any surveyers somewhat close to MI?

Postby tncaver » Jan 12, 2011 10:09 am

One particular entrance to Fisher Ridge Cave is a deep pit with a lot of loose rock.
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Re: Any surveyers somewhat close to MI?

Postby Anonymous_Coward » Jan 12, 2011 10:48 am

Fisher Ridge Cave System was the last real caving trip I did. My wife and I went on a survey trip there on Dec. 29. The main entrance that they use is a 65 ft. drop down a culvert. Then there are two short drops with redirects to get down to horizontal passage. Not the most difficult vertical work in the world, but not exactly straightforward beginner material either.

In the case of Fisher Ridge, I was told that anyone can come, but you HAVE to survey. No recreational trips. Get some survey experience, get some vertical experience, and then you will be as welcome there as anyone else. Big caves and big cave trips are not the best places to learn. Most cavers do not want to teach vertical and survey during a trip to the edge of one of the longest caves in the world. It's nothing personal, it just takes up too much time on a trip that has specific objectives. On the trip we did, we traveled three hours in each direction and only had about three hours to survey. We managed to get 243 feet in the book. Not all that much, but that was with three experienced surveyors. Had we been teaching someone how to do it, we would have managed much less.

Get the skills, then go on the big trips.
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Re: Any surveyers somewhat close to MI?

Postby Jeff Bartlett » Jan 24, 2011 7:25 pm

Armstrong, don't you know some chick that used to live in Michigan?
"Although it pains me to say it, in this case Jeff is right. Plan accordingly." --Andy Armstrong
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Re: Any surveyers somewhat close to MI?

Postby wyandottecaver » Jan 24, 2011 8:13 pm

Amy,

the St.Joe Valley Grotto based out of South Bend does most of their caving in southern indiana. They are pretty active surveyors as they are the primary group in Lost River (20+ miles) A good group and they have several active women. If you need an intro let me know. Once your in S Indiana Mammoth is only a few hours away, but we are closer :)
I'm not scared of the dark, it's the things IN the dark that make me nervous. :)
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Re: Any surveyers somewhat close to MI?

Postby tncaver » Jan 24, 2011 8:28 pm

Amy,
If you move to TAG and live near Chattanooga/Sewanee area you may want to join the Sewanee Mtn. Grotto. This may be the perfect
grotto for you. Of course you can join their grotto even if you choose Atlanta or any other place to live. Check them out at
http://www.caves.org/grotto/sewaneemountaingrotto/ Click on survey projects and you will read the following:

"SMG continues to conduct ridge walks to discover new caves as well as survey existing and new caves in the TAG area.
Survey projects are open to all grotto members and hands on training is provided. At the heart of our survey projects
are the Psycho Survey Bitches and Our Entourage of Manly Men.
The Psycho Survey Bitches won a silver medal in the survey competition at the 2009 International Congress of Speleology !!"

Sewanee Grotto is a fun loving, hard caving group with lots of experience, lots of love for the environment and lots of love
for caving :clap:
Last edited by tncaver on Jan 25, 2011 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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