Cave entrance sealed

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Cave entrance sealed

Postby ArcticWolf » Aug 15, 2010 3:29 am

I went back to a cave i had explored years ago only to find it sealed with concrete. It is public land and i was told it was done to keep kids out. The question is can i still map the cave and hopefully find another entrance. I have an extensive engineering background and wondered if there is any equipment out there i could use, the cave is somewhat shallow, i estimate 15 ft. I can't dig until i get to private property and get permission from the owner.
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Re: Cave entrance sealed

Postby Mudduck » Aug 15, 2010 4:37 pm

Short of Ground Penetratin radar or Acoustical Wave Seismology stuff i'd say shop around for another entrance. Or get a good air hammer and nitrogen tank. What part of the world are you in???
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Re: Cave entrance sealed

Postby Scott McCrea » Aug 15, 2010 4:41 pm

Talk to the local grotto (caving club). They probably know the history of why it was sealed and if they landowner is friendly. They may also know if their are any good spots to look for possible new entrances.
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Re: Cave entrance sealed

Postby ArcticWolf » Aug 15, 2010 9:54 pm

Mudduck wrote:Short of Ground Penetratin radar or Acoustical Wave Seismology stuff i'd say shop around for another entrance. Or get a good air hammer and nitrogen tank. What part of the world are you in???


I am in the US, NY state, the entrance is on public land and i would need dynamite to clear it, doubt i would get permit.
I explored the cave for about 2 mi before i turned around, this was years ago though. I might be able to dig a small hole from the side, depending on how deep the concrete is.
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Re: Cave entrance sealed

Postby Jeff Bartlett » Aug 15, 2010 10:57 pm

If the entrance is on public land and was intentionally sealed, it's doubtful that bypassing or breaching the gate is a good idea (or legal).
"Although it pains me to say it, in this case Jeff is right. Plan accordingly." --Andy Armstrong
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Re: Cave entrance sealed

Postby batrotter » Aug 16, 2010 4:17 am

ArcticWolf wrote:I explored the cave for about 2 mi before i turned around, this was years ago though.



2 miles? That is quite an impressive cave!
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Re: Cave entrance sealed

Postby Mudduck » Aug 16, 2010 7:42 am

Jeff Bartlett wrote:If the entrance is on public land and was intentionally sealed, it's doubtful that bypassing or breaching the gate is a good idea (or legal).

:agree: So be cautious how you approach researching.



2 miles? That is quite an impressive cave![/quote]
Scott McCrea wrote:Talk to the local grotto (caving club). They probably know the history of why it was sealed and if they landowner is friendly. They may also know if their are any good spots to look for possible new entrances.


:exactly: I would also check on the responsible agency for that area. A good ole vague web search for caves under that agencys care may give you the info your looking for. However talking to the local grotto may net you some info and future friends to cave with :grin: !!
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Re: Cave entrance sealed

Postby ArcticWolf » Aug 18, 2010 2:10 pm

I contacted the local grotto group and they were not interested.
It is a well known cave and was used for the underground railroad and prohibition. It goes under our city and there are rumors of secret entrances, although i never saw any. I am told it was sealed because kids kept going in there, of course bars would have been nicer instead of concrete. The paper ran an article recently suggesting that the cave was actually an urban legend, so i got interested again since i had explored the cave.
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Re: Cave entrance sealed

Postby Mudduck » Aug 19, 2010 7:38 am

Sounds exciting. I'd give anything to live a little closer and I'd help you figure this out!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Cave entrance sealed

Postby commanderzoom » Dec 22, 2010 1:05 am

That does sound exciting! I know I'd be out there searching for other entrances. If you heard rumors about other entrances they probably exist and just require some legwork to find. They could be located in people's basements if it goes under the city. There could also be storm drains that flow into it and you might be able to access it that way. Just don't tell anyone since it's sealed up and the main entrance is on public land.

I can't believe they used concrete to seal it up. WTH were they thinking?

Umm...not really advocating breaking into caves and I know it sounded like that. I wouldn't violate a WNS closure or a gate to protect an endangered species but something like that? Probably, if I could get away with it.
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Re: Cave entrance sealed

Postby Bumbalawski » Dec 22, 2010 9:18 am

Sounds like a cave similar to the ones in the Frederick Md/Chambersburg Pa. area. Follow the rumors and legends. Perhaps another entrance can be found. If it was mapped, that would be a plus. Like another person said, most cement plugs are usually opened on the sides if you are willing to take the risk. Here is an idea. If it had bats and such in it prior to sealing, wouldn't sealing it with cement be wrong? The cave, legally, should have been gated. That may be an approach to getting it, at least, modified to an opening gate. But then, you will have a legal battle with the local, sometimes, hard headed officials. Just a thought.
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Re: Cave entrance sealed

Postby ArcticWolf » Jan 23, 2011 1:51 am

The other entrance was sealed in 1885, this entrance was sealed around 1950 by local quarry workers, no wildlife was ever recorded. the cave descriptions are very similiar and a distance of 2 mile exist between the two, nobody ever found a connection though. I contacted the local grotto and they believe the cave is a legend, i guess a group was set up in the 1970's to find it and concluded the cave was a legend. Not sure how that happened, the cave was common knowledge to us kids then. I did get some good information on Electrical resistance survey to map the cave. The equipment seems easy enough except for getting the software needed. i will give updates on any progress
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Re: Cave entrance sealed

Postby Andy » Jan 23, 2011 12:02 pm

Speculation .... This sounds like we are being setup for another hoax like Ted's Cave Story. http://www.angelfire.com/trek/caver/page1.html

You can skip a lot of reading and get the "hook" at the bottom of: http://www.angelfire.com/trek/caver/page10.html
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Re: Cave entrance sealed

Postby self-deleted_user » Jan 23, 2011 1:35 pm

Ah but it was such a good story! (And the first photos were easy to see the whole thing was fake, not to mention how it was written with tenses and such). Still, I enjoyed it!
Self-deleted due to large troll population on the forum, and absence of moderation.
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Re: Cave entrance sealed

Postby Caverdale » Jan 23, 2011 3:08 pm

Sungura wrote:Ah but it was such a good story! (And the first photos were easy to see the whole thing was fake, not to mention how it was written with tenses and such). Still, I enjoyed it!

We are getting off topic here, but I have to comment on the above two posts so readers don't get the wrong story. There are two parts to the "Ted, the Caver" story. First is the "fake" and "hoax" part. Second, is the real part of the true account and photographs of the excavation of a connection in Interstate Cave on I-80 just east of Wendover, Utah. ALL the photos are real and can be duplicated, except for where limestone was chipped away. Ted admits that he embellished his account, (greatly embellished, IMHO) expressing feelings, sounds and sights that mostly never existed to give the story more human interest. But, the dig part was real. B in the story (Brad M.) came to Salt Lake Grotto meetings at least twice during the dig, begging for help. After his vivid description I don't remember anyone from our group volunteering, although I understand he got a few from the Timpanogos Grotto. Subsequently, many people have been through the squeeze. I'm not one of them. A map used to be published on the Timpanogos Grotto web site, but I don't see it now. About 3 years ago, a long thread was posted on this forum and I explained in detail the story as I knew it, but soon after it appeared,Ted called and asked that it be removed. He had his reasons which were valid at the time. Don't know about now.

Any one can come to Utah and see this passage, if you are small enough. Access does require a permit from the Utah Highway Patrol to park on the Interstate, and crawling over recent wet, slimy pigeon droppings. Ralph Powers, a frequent poster here, also knows the story and the people involved and may want to chime in.
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