What resources are available to learn survey sketching?

Techniques, equipment and issues. Also visit the NSS Survey & Cartography Section.

Moderator: Moderators

What resources are available to learn survey sketching?

Postby shanemac10 » Feb 23, 2019 10:24 am

Currently our grotto is in need of a survey sketcher, and I would like to learn the technique to meet that need. I've already been on a survey, and learned how to use the basic equipment, I just need to focus on learning sketching.

1 - What are the available resources? Are there seminars, or reading materials? Or is it more of a one-on-one taught thing, where I need to understudy someone else for a bit?

2 - Are there official NSS accepted standards for techniques, symbols, etc, that I should be aware of? And are there different "schools of thought" that I should be aware of?

Thanks!
shanemac10
Infrequent Poster
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Feb 23, 2019 9:36 am
NSS #: 65523
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Tulsa Regional Oklahoma Grotto
  

Re: What resources are available to learn survey sketching?

Postby GroundquestMSA » Feb 24, 2019 5:14 pm

Read the survey section of this forum. Read the book On Station by George Dasher. Practice. Sketching is pretty straightforward, but you need to be on the same page as the person who will draft the map. If you are doing the sketching and cartography you'll have more freedom to learn as you go and to make your own philosophical decisions.
User avatar
GroundquestMSA
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 1376
Joined: May 5, 2011 1:32 pm
  

Re: What resources are available to learn survey sketching?

Postby bobby49 » Feb 25, 2019 12:24 pm

There is an NSS standard for symbols. However, that standard seems to evolve over time. Plus, that typical group of symbols needs to change from cave to cave, so you end up needing to put a custom legend on each finished map. Yes, read the Dasher book first.
bobby49
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 72
Joined: Jun 20, 2018 12:57 am
  

Re: What resources are available to learn survey sketching?

Postby trogman » Feb 28, 2019 10:48 am

Link for the NSS Cave Mapping Symbols:
[text-url=]https://caves.org/section/sacs/SACS/Resources_files/V41n2-hi.pdf[/text-url]

As far as I know, these standard cave mapping symbols have not changed since 1976. I discussed this on the Survey and Cartography FB page, and several of them mentioned that the standard needed to be updated.

I used to use a variety of symbols, and then I'd put them all in the legend. But that got to taking up a lot of real estate on my maps, so I started using the NSS symbols. Then I put in a note in the title block that states "All map symbols are 1976 N.S.S. Standard." If I decide to add any symbols or depict anything differently, then I will make an exception note underneath the first one.

I will second the idea of getting Dasher's book. I refer to it on a regular basis.

Trogman :helmet:
User avatar
trogman
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 977
Joined: May 2, 2008 8:35 am
Location: North Alabama
Name: Stephen Brewer
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Gadsden Grotto
  

Re: What resources are available to learn survey sketching?

Postby bobby49 » Feb 28, 2019 3:42 pm

Don't take offense, but there are newer resources for map symbols. They are not consistent, but they go a long way from those 1976 standards. For one thing, back then we did not have good tools or computers. Now we can carry in a tablet computer and have a whole array of icons handy. For any single cave, you won't be using more than half of the standard symbols, but constructing new custom legends on every new map gets to be a PITA. Also, if you shift around from one time period of standards to another, you will see conflicts.

The first cave map that I ever did was back around 1964, and it used purely pencil on graph paper. I was a kid, and that was all I had.
bobby49
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 72
Joined: Jun 20, 2018 12:57 am
  

Re: What resources are available to learn survey sketching?

Postby GroundquestMSA » Mar 1, 2019 6:34 am

The symbols you use aren't very important. Ledge and slope are about the only ones that will be practically useful. I used to look for every chance I could find to use obscure map symbols, but these days I stick to the most basic: ledge, slope, ceiling ledge, stal, rocks, and I notate any other significant features. Notes are more versatile and universal than symbols, and they don't require a legend.
User avatar
GroundquestMSA
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 1376
Joined: May 5, 2011 1:32 pm
  

Re: What resources are available to learn survey sketching?

Postby batboy » Mar 5, 2019 9:09 am

That's awesome you are taking the initiative to learn sketching. I have some young cavers helping me on my project that don't mind doing tape duties, but most have no desire to learn how to keep book. A good sketcher is worth their weight in gold. So start out with something fairly simple to survey at first and get comfortable before attempting a complex project. What I found helpful back when I was learning to sketch was is to look at survey books done by good sketchers and study what they did. It would be nice to have an experienced sketcher looking over your shoulder the first couple of times to give suggestions and to have handy if you have questions.

I saw one comment that said talk to the lead surveyor or head cartographer and find out what they need. That is important. The passages in my current survey project tend to be fairly featureless with wall to wall flowing water. So, there's not a lot of detail beyond passage walls, a few domes, and maybe an occasional mud bank. As mentioned, there is a NSS publication on standard symbols. There are about 6 to 8 common ones I use and a few other symbols I use less frequently, so maybe a dozen total at most. So, no need to commit the whole symbol list to memory. If I don't remember what symbol to use while surveying, I just make a note in the margin with an arrows pointing to the feature.
batboy
Infrequent Poster
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Jan 27, 2019 3:38 pm
NSS #: 25297
Primary Grotto Affiliation: KSS
  

Re: What resources are available to learn survey sketching?

Postby shanemac10 » Mar 16, 2019 6:00 pm

Thank you all for your help and suggestions! I found a copy of "On Station" on eBay for ~$40 delivered, which is going to be very helpful. I also found Derek Bristol's channel on YouTube, which has been so incredibly rich with information. I highly recommend you check out the channel and all his different playlists, as reference for yourself and others like myself looking for thoughtful resource to start with.

SKETCHING VIDEO:
Cave Survey - Sketching
[text-url=]https://youtu.be/8oDNtBIg1k4[/text-url]

FULL 25 VIDEO PLAYLIST:
Cave Survey
[text-url=]https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxgxDxSeVuvuDXMflLV7nOYdPFroOcATV[/text-url]
shanemac10
Infrequent Poster
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Feb 23, 2019 9:36 am
NSS #: 65523
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Tulsa Regional Oklahoma Grotto
  

Re: What resources are available to learn survey sketching?

Postby shanemac10 » Mar 17, 2019 1:47 pm

Addendum:

I just came across the NSS webinar given by George Dasher himself about surveying, basically giving an overview of his book "On Station"...

[text-url=]https://caves.org/webinars/index-2.shtml#Survey[/text-url]

Introduction to Cave Surveying
by George Dasher, NSS 16643
April 10, 2013

The art and science of mapping caves, while similar to land surveying, is much more complex in that it is three-dimensional, and in addition to its boundaries, a cave's internal features need to be described. Cave mapping has evolved greatly over the past half century, from crude pace-and-compass drawings to exquisitely detailed computer-generated masterpieces. George Dasher, an environ- mental geologist for the State of West Virginia, is one of the best-known cartographers around; he literally wrote the book on how to map caves, On Station, published by the NSS. George has also run the NSS Cartographic Salon for two decades, and won two medal awards for his maps. Here George explains the basics of how to commit the essence of a cave to paper. (61:01)
shanemac10
Infrequent Poster
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Feb 23, 2019 9:36 am
NSS #: 65523
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Tulsa Regional Oklahoma Grotto
  


Return to Survey and Cartography Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users