New NSS Book: Blue Spring Cave

NSS News, other caving publications, and books.

Moderator: Moderators

Re: NEW NSS PUBLICATION ANNOUCEMENT!!!

Postby wyandottecaver » Feb 11, 2010 5:52 pm

Larry,

it is the nature of forums to take a thread and run...sometimes amok.

Jeff,

I too am by no means an expert, but I think the confusion may be in set up costs and production costs and the term "order". POD allows 1 book "orders" to be economical (after the setup run) but POD isn't defined as 1 book orders.

So, the main factor between POD and press is how many different runs are expected and will the total volume be high enough for the production costs effeciency of the press to overcome the setup costs advantage of POD. Then there is storage.....
Last edited by wyandottecaver on Feb 11, 2010 5:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I'm not scared of the dark, it's the things IN the dark that make me nervous. :)
User avatar
wyandottecaver
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 2902
Joined: Aug 24, 2007 8:44 pm
Location: Indiana
  

Re: NEW NSS PUBLICATION ANNOUCEMENT!!!

Postby tncaver » Feb 11, 2010 5:54 pm

Jeff Bartlett wrote:
Larry E. Matthews wrote:let me explain how "Print on Demand" works

You're not describing Print On Demand. You're describing the traditional printing process, where you order a specific number of copies of a given book, and the more you order the more economical it is. This concurs with the first part of the statement ("350 copies") but not the second part ("using a Print On Demand method").

Since I can't explain it any better than wikipedia does, I'll paste the first paragraph from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Print_on_demand:
wikipedia wrote:Print on demand (POD), sometimes called publish on demand, is a printing technology and business process in which new copies of a book (or other document) are not printed until an order has been received. "Print on Demand" developed only after digital printing began, because it was not economical to print single copies using traditional printing technology such as letterpress and offset printing.

This is not what you are describing and I suspect it is not actually how we (the NSS) are printing the book, which makes it absurd for there to be a secret BOG "email vote" agreeing that we are doing something which we are, presumably, not doing.


Ok. I'll try to explain. On demand does not mean an order of one book at a time. Printers do not work that way. Not even digital printers. An order is not for one book. An order is for a predetermined minimum or maximum amount. On demand usually means smaller orders as opposed to large orders. I worked in prepress 28 years. I am not an expert but I picked up a few things about how the industry works. Larry's books are always very informative. This one will have great pictures too. Sure, I'm biased....a little. Yes, I contributed....a little. Buy it, you will like it. :woohoo: Yes, POD may be a bit more expensive, but is
necessary unless you are a world renowned author that can readily sell thousands of books.
tncaver
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 2631
Joined: May 17, 2007 7:03 pm
  

Re: NEW NSS PUBLICATION ANNOUCEMENT!!!

Postby Cheryl Jones » Feb 11, 2010 11:21 pm

Hey, POD wasn't Larry's decision. Cut him some slack! :chill: Larry's just the (generous) author. The NSS EVP is the one you need to be asking (or who needs to be responding) about the printing method decision. Or any Board member should be able to explain, since they're approving the publishing project.

BTW, the NSS has printed many books over the years using the POD method.

Cheryl
User avatar
Cheryl Jones
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 2469
Joined: Sep 2, 2005 11:53 pm
Location: Virginia
Name: Cheryl Jones
NSS #: 14479 FE OS
Primary Grotto Affiliation: BATS
  

Re: NEW NSS PUBLICATION ANNOUCEMENT!!!

Postby Teresa » Feb 12, 2010 6:00 pm

To take another whack at the dead horse...

1) Cheryl is correct. We should all be giving Larry BIG kudos and hugs for writing, compiling and then being so generous to the NSS. You cannot buy loyalty like that-- and that doesn't matter if the book is being printed with a potato by hodags in an underwater sweatshop. Or not.

2) There is "print on demand" and Print on Demand. Jeff and the others are correct...there is single copy print on demand digital printing of totally obscure works (like someone's master's thesis on snail mites) and there is short run, but quality production ordered in lots of 100 or so, with a total press run of under 1000 copies. Unfortunately, they are both called Print on Demand. To make the confusion worse, there is also POD which is used by the vanity presses, where they require so many preorder sales, before they will turn on the presses, and fire up the bindery to make the second kind of book. I'm assuming (I DO NOT KNOW) that it is the second "legitimate" method of short run printing being used by the NSS.

3) The secret to the success of any book, (given that that writing is good, the pictures are sharp and the production/execution is acceptable) is the marketing and distribution. You cannot easily sell any product unless you have the product on hand. Before that, it is just a promise. In the case of discretionary books, most people still want to flip the pages... Most people still won't order something sight unseen without a recommendation, which means someone will have had to have seen it along the way. Or a previous work by the same author. Hence the NSS bookstore lugging all those books around the country...wouldn't it be better for them to NOT go to conventions, and just send out pictures of dust jackets and reviews otherwise? It would be cheaper, certainly. But they wouldn't sell as many books throughout the year.

4) I have worked in printing/publishing since 1978. If nothing else,this thread is generating buzz-- people are going to want to take a look and see what the fuss is. So thanks to all of you for (perhaps inadvertently) promoting Larry's book! :clap: *|;-)
Teresa
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 1413
Joined: Dec 31, 2005 9:06 pm
  

Re: NEW NSS PUBLICATION ANNOUCEMENT!!!

Postby tncaver » Feb 12, 2010 6:30 pm

I ordered three copies, sight unseen. I know it will be a good book because all of Larry's books are good.
tncaver
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 2631
Joined: May 17, 2007 7:03 pm
  

Re: NEW NSS PUBLICATION ANNOUCEMENT!!!

Postby Larry E. Matthews » Feb 14, 2010 8:22 pm

Please remember that this is only HALF my book. Bill Walter was my very capable co-author.

As you will see, when you read the book, Bill Walter was involved with the exploration from 1989 to the present. I just helped put it all in book form.

And, we had a BUNCH of help from numerous cave photographers, the many people who allowed us to use their Trip Reports, and ALL the people who did the mapping. This was truly a team effort.

Larry E. Matthews
NSS #6792-F
Larry E. Matthews
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 968
Joined: Sep 6, 2005 3:05 pm
Location: Nashville, Tennessee
NSS #: 6792
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Nashville Grotto
  

Re: NEW NSS PUBLICATION ANNOUCEMENT!!!

Postby tncaver » Feb 14, 2010 9:08 pm

Larry E. Matthews wrote:Please remember that this is only HALF my book. Bill Walter was my very capable co-author.

As you will see, when you read the book, Bill Walter was involved with the exploration from 1989 to the present. I just helped put it all in book form.

And, we had a BUNCH of help from numerous cave photographers, the many people who allowed us to use their Trip Reports, and ALL the people who did the mapping. This was truly a team effort.

Larry E. Matthews
NSS #6792-F



Right you are Larry. Sorry for bragging on your other books. :laughing: I agree, Bill Walter as co-author is sure to make the book more accurate and provide
more factual accounts than any other person could possibly document. The fact that you included so many accounts from other participants is sure to increase the book's validity as well. And I know that Bob Biddix's photo's will do the cave justice. I'm looking forward to reading the book because there is so much of the cave that I personally have never seen. Your book will enlighten me to all that I missed out on. Congrats to all. :banana_yay:
tncaver
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 2631
Joined: May 17, 2007 7:03 pm
  

Blue Spring Cave Is Ready !!!

Postby Larry E. Matthews » Feb 22, 2010 4:14 pm

Blue Spring Cave has now arrived at the NSS Bookstore. You can go ahead and place your orders.

I haven't got my copy yet, but Stephanie Searles says it looks great.

The paperback copies are ready. I think it will be about one more week before the hardback copies are ready. Check with the Bookstore.

Larry E. Matthews
NSS #6792-F
Larry E. Matthews
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 968
Joined: Sep 6, 2005 3:05 pm
Location: Nashville, Tennessee
NSS #: 6792
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Nashville Grotto
  

Re: NEW NSS PUBLICATION ANNOUNCEMENT!!!

Postby Larry E. Matthews » Feb 26, 2010 3:56 pm

Somewhere earlier in this thread, it was stated that the softback copies would be $30 and the hardback copies would be $50.

Well, that was probably an estimate at that point. Now that the softback copies have arrived at the NSS Bookstore, the actual price is:


$38 for a non-NSS Member

$35 for an NSS Member

$33 for a Life NSS Member


Of course, you have to add shipping to that price. Right now, the NSS Bookstore website does not list what the price of a hardback will be, but I am sure it too will vary, depending on your membership status.

I have been told that the hardback copies should arrive sometime next week.

Larry E. Matthews
NSS #6792-F
Larry E. Matthews
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 968
Joined: Sep 6, 2005 3:05 pm
Location: Nashville, Tennessee
NSS #: 6792
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Nashville Grotto
  

Re: New NSS Book: Blue Spring Cave

Postby JR-Orion » Mar 2, 2010 1:23 pm

Placed my order yesterday. :)
Letting the days go by / water flowing underground
Into the blue again / in the silent water
Under the rocks and stones / there is water underground.
User avatar
JR-Orion
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 482
Joined: Aug 28, 2009 12:21 pm
Location: Illinois
Name: Jasen Rogers
NSS #: 61613
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Iowa Grotto
  

Blue Spring Cave - Hardbound Copies Are Ready

Postby Larry E. Matthews » Mar 5, 2010 6:10 pm

The NSS Bookstore now has the hardbound version of the "Blue Spring Cave" book. I got mine in the mail yesterday.

It is a really nice binding job by the printers. It really, really looks good.

Larry E. Matthews
NSS #6792-F
Larry E. Matthews
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 968
Joined: Sep 6, 2005 3:05 pm
Location: Nashville, Tennessee
NSS #: 6792
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Nashville Grotto
  

Book-Signing Scheduled For April 24

Postby Larry E. Matthews » Mar 24, 2010 3:21 pm

The White County Historical Museum in Sparta, Tennessee is sponsoring a Book-Signing on Saturday, April 24. Both Bill Walter and I will be there to autograph the books. Both Softbound and Hardbound copies will be on sale. If you already have one, just bring it by and we will be glad to autograph it for you.

The Book-Signing is scheduled from 1:00 to 3:00, but we will gladly stay longer if people are still in line.

Photographer Bob Biddix and Cave Model Erica Sughrue plan to be there and I'm sure cave onwer Lonnie Carr will be there, too.

Come by and visit if you are in the area that day.

Larry E. Matthews
NSS #6792-F
Larry E. Matthews
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 968
Joined: Sep 6, 2005 3:05 pm
Location: Nashville, Tennessee
NSS #: 6792
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Nashville Grotto
  

Re: New NSS Book: Blue Spring Cave

Postby Larry E. Matthews » Sep 6, 2010 9:27 pm

This past Wednesday (September 1, 2010) Bob Biddix gave a great presentation on Blue Spring Cave and the "Blue Spring Cave" book at the Huntsville Grotto meeting. Bill Walter and I were there to do a Book Signing. We had a really nice turnout.

Bob gave his program about a month earlier for the Chattanooga Grotto and I was there to sign books, but Bill Walter was unable to attend.

About a month, or two, before that Bob gave his program for the Nashville Grotto.

Bob had his photos set up on a "loop" on a projector at the first Book Signing in Sparta, Tennessee. One poor elderly man kept waiting for the program to END !!! Bob tried to explain to him, that the slides were on a loop, and would keep going until the machine turned off. I don't think the poor man ever figured it out.

As nice as the photos are in the book, it is really exciting to see all of them in full color and blown up screen-size. Bob tells you how they were made and a lot of information about the cave. If you have a chance, you will enjoy going to one of his presentations. Erica Sughrue is usually there, too, to describe the photo trips from a model's perspective. When I find out where he will be giving his presentation next, I will try to list it here.

Larry E. Matthews
NSS #6792-F
Larry E. Matthews
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 968
Joined: Sep 6, 2005 3:05 pm
Location: Nashville, Tennessee
NSS #: 6792
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Nashville Grotto
  

Re: New NSS Book: Blue Spring Cave

Postby JR-Orion » Feb 28, 2011 2:45 pm

Ordered the book some time ago, and read it over the weekend. Loved it! It's a great book, and all the maps and photos are really impressive. Especially the full color photo section at the back.

What an amazing cave.
:kewl:
I liked how the book focused on the big stuff (huge canyons and rooms) and the small stuff (gypsum needles and flowers).
Letting the days go by / water flowing underground
Into the blue again / in the silent water
Under the rocks and stones / there is water underground.
User avatar
JR-Orion
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 482
Joined: Aug 28, 2009 12:21 pm
Location: Illinois
Name: Jasen Rogers
NSS #: 61613
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Iowa Grotto
  

Previous

Return to Publications

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users