Electronic distribution of NSS publications POLL

NSS News, other caving publications, and books.

Moderator: Moderators

If NSS publications were available electronically what would you do?

I would be willing to forgo paper copies of all publications in exchange for a reduction in dues
11
23%
I would be willing to pay extra for any paper publications I receive to cover actual costs
13
28%
I would like that as an option but still want paper copies
19
40%
I don't currently receive all publications but would use electronic versions if available
4
9%
 
Total votes : 47

Electronic distribution of NSS publications POLL

Postby wyandottecaver » Apr 15, 2009 8:21 pm

What say you.....

By publications I mean the NSS NEWS, American Caving Accidents, Members Manual, and Journal of Cave and Karst Science.

By available electronically I mean available by password website where they can be viewed and or downloladed
I'm not scared of the dark, it's the things IN the dark that make me nervous. :)
User avatar
wyandottecaver
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 2902
Joined: Aug 24, 2007 8:44 pm
Location: Indiana
  

Re: Electronic distribution of NSS publications POLL

Postby David Grimes » Apr 15, 2009 8:24 pm

I prefer electronic format on everything but I prefer computers to paper so go figure. Of course I am studying to become a software engineer so using paper is bad business for me.
User avatar
David Grimes
Admin
 
Posts: 1297
Joined: Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
Location: Port Richey, Fl / Harrison County, In
NSS #: 59533
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Indiana Underground Society
  

Re: Electronic distribution of NSS publications POLL

Postby mgmills » Apr 15, 2009 8:47 pm

All you computer oriented people need to remember that not all NSS members are set up to recieve electronic pubs. Some of us due to budget considerations and lack of need for our jobs run old computers and software. (I'm still running Windows 98). I'm on dial-up because where I choose to live my only "fast option" is satellite which is sketchy here in the woods in the summer due to many trees. It is also pricy compared to dial-up and with the "leafy lapses" I can't justify the cost increase. (I'd probably have to upgrade or replace my computer to be able to get the service anyway.) I don't own a laptop and cell phone service is also unreliable at my home so that type of internet service isn't an option. AT&T says some day we may get DSL out here but I'm not holding my breath and there is no cable service for miles and miles. Trying to download an NSS News or Journal would not be feasible on a dial-up connection.

Sometimes, I like to read sitting outside or traveling. Since I don't have a laptop, I couldn't take it with me.

I choose to live in the woods 12 miles from anywhere because I love the peacefulness of my home. I sometimes miss having fast internet but the advantages of living here outweigh the disadvantages for me so far.
Martha Mills
NSS 39864
User avatar
mgmills
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 1375
Joined: Sep 5, 2005 3:06 pm
Location: Sewanee TN
Name: Martha Mills
NSS #: 39864
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Dogwood City Grotto
  

Re: Electronic distribution of NSS publications POLL

Postby wyandottecaver » Apr 15, 2009 9:01 pm

Martha,

Thats why I included 3 options for you to get paper copies :)
I'm not scared of the dark, it's the things IN the dark that make me nervous. :)
User avatar
wyandottecaver
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 2902
Joined: Aug 24, 2007 8:44 pm
Location: Indiana
  

Re: Electronic distribution of NSS publications POLL

Postby David Grimes » Apr 15, 2009 9:16 pm

I have to agree that there is a need for paper but I still think many people would prefer electronic format and even with the number of paper copies the NSS would still be saving money and space to have an electronic option. I have not recieved a paper bank statement or paper bill (for ones with an electronc option) and I don't see any problems with it. I always have the option of printing them out for myself if I need to.
User avatar
David Grimes
Admin
 
Posts: 1297
Joined: Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
Location: Port Richey, Fl / Harrison County, In
NSS #: 59533
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Indiana Underground Society
  

Re: Electronic distribution of NSS publications POLL

Postby Stridergdm » Apr 15, 2009 10:10 pm

I'm a computer geek. My previous work involved handling IT for on-line newspapers (We handled several hundred newspapers on-line presence). I'm currently working for a company that makes its money from banner ads (yes, "I do evil" as I tell people.)

I prefer paper. Due to current work situation, I end up subscribing to not one, but two newspapers. I still prefer a hard-copy of stuff.

That's me.
Cavers rescue cavers!
User avatar
Stridergdm
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 926
Joined: Nov 1, 2005 10:08 am
Location: Capital District NY and Northern Virginia
Name: Greg Moore
Primary Grotto Affiliation: RPI Grotto
  

Re: Electronic distribution of NSS publications POLL

Postby Dave Bunnell » Apr 15, 2009 10:12 pm

Interesting...here I was about to post my own NSS News poll and I see this one. The two have nothing in common though, mine is just about the News content, and is online at:
http://www.caves.org/pub/nssnews/survey.html. I'm going to make a separate post describing that in a new thread, though.

It will be interesting to see how this one about electronic copies pans out. One thing to remember about electronic distribution is that the printing costs probably remain the same unless reduced by many thousands of issues. The biggest savings would certainly be the postage. I do in fact make PDFs of each issue of the News as an archive. These range from about 50-60 mb for the high quality one and about 3-5 mb for the "smallest file size" version. That might still be a challenge for some dialup folks. I could probably also render something in-between in quality and file size. The text would be equally clear in both, just a matter of how crisp a photo would look when you zoom in.
NSS News Editor
Dave Bunnell
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 164
Joined: Sep 6, 2005 10:19 pm
Location: Angels Camp, California
  

Re: Electronic distribution of NSS publications POLL

Postby David Grimes » Apr 15, 2009 10:22 pm

For dial-up users there is always the option of making several small files that can quickly be downloaded and read while the others are downloading. I think that if it meant saving money and helping the environment you could easily see an online subscription that would reduce the printing by several thousand copies. Again like already noted the postage is a huge savings. I really cannot say what the cost would be exactly but I guarantee it would be less than the printing costs after all if there is a smaller electronic subscription there is no need for a larger server if there is a larger subscription then the server will pay for itself.
User avatar
David Grimes
Admin
 
Posts: 1297
Joined: Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
Location: Port Richey, Fl / Harrison County, In
NSS #: 59533
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Indiana Underground Society
  

Re: Electronic distribution of NSS publications POLL

Postby ArCaver » Apr 16, 2009 4:48 am

Dave Bunnell wrote:Interesting...here I was about to post my own NSS News poll and I see this one. The two have nothing in common though, mine is just about the News content, and is online at:
http://www.caves.org/pub/nssnews/survey.html. I'm going to make a separate post describing that in a new thread, though.

It will be interesting to see how this one about electronic copies pans out. One thing to remember about electronic distribution is that the printing costs probably remain the same unless reduced by many thousands of issues. The biggest savings would certainly be the postage. I do in fact make PDFs of each issue of the News as an archive. These range from about 50-60 mb for the high quality one and about 3-5 mb for the "smallest file size" version. That might still be a challenge for some dialup folks. I could probably also render something in-between in quality and file size. The text would be equally clear in both, just a matter of how crisp a photo would look when you zoom in.


Any plans to make the archives available for purchase to members on DVD? Do you know if the JCKS issues are archived as well?
User avatar
ArCaver
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 567
Joined: Jul 31, 2006 12:42 pm
  

Re: Electronic distribution of NSS publications POLL

Postby batrotter » Apr 16, 2009 6:20 am

wyandottecaver wrote:By publications I mean the NSS NEWS, American Caving Accidents, Members Manual, and Journal of Cave and Karst Science.


Todd,

One option that I would like that you didn't offer is to pick and choose either paper or electronic for all publications. For example, I would still like to get the NSS News in paper but the others, American Caving Accidents, Members Manual, and Journal of Cave and Karst Science, I would take the electronic version.

Of course, I'm a life member, so it wouldn't reduce my dues anyway.
batrotter
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 530
Joined: Sep 6, 2005 9:20 am
Location: Columbus, Indiana
Name: Bruce Trotter
NSS #: 27849RL
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Indiana Cave Survey
  

Re: Electronic distribution of NSS publications POLL

Postby NZcaver » Apr 16, 2009 3:01 pm

batrotter wrote:One option that I would like that you didn't offer is to pick and choose either paper or electronic for all publications. For example, I would still like to get the NSS News in paper but the others, American Caving Accidents, Members Manual, and Journal of Cave and Karst Science, I would take the electronic version.

Agreed. But I know there could be privacy-related issues with the Members Manual being produced in electronic form, so I'm not holding my breath for that. Last year I opted-out of the JCKS, but I wouldn't say no to having an electronic version available. With the NSS News, ideally I'd like the paper AND electronic versions so I can reference the older issues which don't travel back and forth across the country with me.

I think giving individual members the option of choosing paper and/or electronic publications would be a nice thing. Kind of like having your cake and eating it too. :big grin:
User avatar
NZcaver
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 6342
Joined: Sep 7, 2005 2:05 am
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Name: Jansen
NSS #: 50665RL
  

Re: Electronic distribution of NSS publications POLL

Postby Cheryl Jones » Apr 16, 2009 3:19 pm

Do you know if the JCKS issues are archived as well?

Issues of the Journal are archived on the NSS Web site now, and current issues are loaded ASAP after they are published. You can use the search engine on the web site to find specific topics.

Any plans to make the archives available for purchase to members on DVD?

No plans on that front, but the project is well underway by the University of South Florida to place all back issues of the News on the Karst Information Portal, in a searchable format. Once the issues have all been converted to pdfs, then issuing a DVD of past issues would be something the NSS could consider. Plans are to place back issues of the Bulletin, Journal, and Convention guidebooks on KIP as well.

But I know there could be privacy-related issues with the Members Manual being produced in electronic form.

Exactly. The Board has discussed this idea several times over the years. There was a motion on the April Board meeting agenda to prohibit the MM from being published electronically. I don't know if it passed, for the draft minutes have not been posted.

Cheryl
User avatar
Cheryl Jones
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 2469
Joined: Sep 2, 2005 11:53 pm
Location: Virginia
Name: Cheryl Jones
NSS #: 14479 FE OS
Primary Grotto Affiliation: BATS
  

Re: Electronic distribution of NSS publications POLL

Postby David Grimes » Apr 16, 2009 4:33 pm

What would the privacy issue be if access was restricted to password access? While someone could hack the database what exactly would be the point and all your info is on the NSS server anyway so if a hacker really wanted it they could get basically the same way. Once again why would anyone want a bunch of useless info like phone numbers and email addresses. There is not enough info in the MM for any type of identity theft so what is the harm in an electronic version. Maybe allot of board members are not in touch with newer technology so they all just agree not to address it.
User avatar
David Grimes
Admin
 
Posts: 1297
Joined: Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
Location: Port Richey, Fl / Harrison County, In
NSS #: 59533
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Indiana Underground Society
  

Re: Electronic distribution of NSS publications POLL

Postby wyandottecaver » Apr 16, 2009 7:56 pm

Actually the information *is* valuable. First to the people in it, but there are any number of ad companies and spammers who would love some new addresses to hit with their latest scam.
I'm not scared of the dark, it's the things IN the dark that make me nervous. :)
User avatar
wyandottecaver
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 2902
Joined: Aug 24, 2007 8:44 pm
Location: Indiana
  

Re: Electronic distribution of NSS publications POLL

Postby David Grimes » Apr 16, 2009 9:50 pm

If the information was password protected they would have to hack the database to get the info which may or may not be easy but the bottom line if they are that desperate for people to spam they would hack the databse where the info is currently stored there is no difference your information is still online whether in a MM or just in the NSS database it is there for anyone with the skill to take. My point is there are far easier and more legal ways to get email addresses and spammers and scammers will exhaust the easier methods first. If they want it they will get it anyway.
User avatar
David Grimes
Admin
 
Posts: 1297
Joined: Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
Location: Port Richey, Fl / Harrison County, In
NSS #: 59533
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Indiana Underground Society
  

Next

Return to Publications

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users