Can I or should I publish this boring cave info.?

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Re: Can I or should I publish this boring cave info.?

Postby caver.adam » Apr 16, 2013 1:02 pm

Have you considered online publication as an option? Your photobucket site is almost there already. Most of the same information that would go into a booklet can be contained online. However, if you are looking for whether or not you can sell it online wouldn't make much sense.

As for posting photos, if you had landowner permission to be there it is entirely legal for you to publish/share your photos without their explicit consent (in most states).
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Re: Can I or should I publish this boring cave info.?

Postby GroundquestMSA » Apr 16, 2013 5:43 pm

chac wrote:You have documented a lot of "not boring" cave.


Are you seeing the same caves I am seeing? :big grin:

normrogers wrote:You print 1000 copies, then find new cave, and your books are out-dated. When using a site like createspace, if you need to update the book, just upload a new file and it's ready for print in about 12 hours. You can order one book, or you can order as many as you need. Pretty cool option.


I'm not extremely worried about the book becoming too outdated. We have two or three more areas to search before I'll be satisfied that the county has been very well covered. I let my brother walk all the promising areas and I walk the junky ones, just in case (he finds most of the caves). We have walked hundreds of miles and covered almost every section of the county that is likely to contain caves. While another few could certainly pop up after publication, I'm reasonable sure that we got most of them.

I took a look at createspace, and is does look like a good option. I'll certainly keep it in mind as I finish compiling content.

Cavemud wrote:You should NEVER publish a thing, that includes a picture, without the landowner's consent!!! :doh:

I'm actually working on a MAR bulletin for Mifflin County in central PA. There was a caves of the county bulletin published in 1981 and it is outdated. I am AMAZED at the number of landowners who know nothing of their caves being in a publication! They are NOT very happy about it and have closed their caves to cavers because of it. Thanks to the cavers involved!!! :down:


That's not good. Were locations published? If not, I can't imagine why they should be upset. I will not publish locations and I'm making sure to redact even vague hints from my descriptions. The situation here is a bit different too, since closure would have no effect on cavers. Cavers don't cave here anyway (for good reason). I certainly don't mean that it's ok to upset owners, but I will admit that in the past I have found, explored, photographed and surveyed caves without having any idea who the owner was. Ever since I was 6 or 7 I've ran around wherever I pleased without asking anyone. As local culture changes and large parcels are broken up and populated by less casual owners (and lessees), I've become more concerned about owner relations. For the most part I now work hard to keep owners informed and excited about their little hole. Most had no idea that they owned a cave until we found it. There are a few though, that still don't know they have a cave, and never will, whether we publish or not.
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Re: Can I or should I publish this boring cave info.?

Postby Foxy.Ferguson » Aug 1, 2013 6:52 pm

You definitely should publish! At least in a PDF submitted to the NSS Office, and let them deal with reproduction of your PDF and sales to NSS members, if desired. It's data, son, and one of the purposes of this organization is collection of DATA on CAVES! You may even find yourself being named a Fellow of the Society for that, who knows?
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Re: Can I or should I publish this boring cave info.?

Postby GroundquestMSA » Aug 3, 2013 12:12 pm

Foxy.Ferguson wrote:You definitely should publish! At least in a PDF submitted to the NSS Office, and let them deal with reproduction of your PDF and sales to NSS members, if desired. It's data, son, and one of the purposes of this organization is collection of DATA on CAVES! You may even find yourself being named a Fellow of the Society for that, who knows?


Though I'm not even slightly interested in sales or fellowships, I thank you for the encouragement. When I read accounts of early and original exploration of the grand caves of TAG, including those that you participated in Ms. Ferguson, I'm overwhelmed with jealousy. I missed the bountiful feasts of discovery and must now content myself with the scraps. My efforts may be the Bologna of the spelean Hog, but somebody likes bologna, right?

I suppose that I could now mention that I'm actively seeking help in converting all of my data, which is in simple .rtf .bmp .jpg formats, into a "ready to print" .pdf. I may have some help on the way, but being completely helpless in these matters, more is always welcomed.
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Re: Can I or should I publish this boring cave info.?

Postby Foxy.Ferguson » Aug 4, 2013 8:39 am

I gather that creating a .pdf is less trouble than an equivalent series of .html pages for a website. I have done lots of the latter but can't ever recall making one of the former - - - I don't really like .pdf files that much, and strongly dislike ebooks that go hog wild with different font styles, sizes and colors just because they can. Simplicity and standardization is really best, IMHO.
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Re: Can I or should I publish this boring cave info.?

Postby bthomas66 » Sep 24, 2013 11:02 am

Publish dear Groundhog and be....proud! When I was at Sheffield University, Yorkshire, England, in the 1960's we visited Eire, Counties Sligo, Fermanagh and then Clare; finding lots of little caves; they went into our little SUSS Journal and are there for posterity.....and for others to build upon. Good man. Have you done any biospeleology in your discovered caves? You never know what you can find. I went down into the GB CRG Annals by finding a rare snail - it now has my name!
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Re: Can I or should I publish this boring cave info.?

Postby arizonaowl » Sep 15, 2014 1:39 pm

Yes: please publish them. Granted only a very few people might want to see them, this will give them a chance to do so. Regards, Al Copley 20845
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Re: Can I or should I publish this boring cave info.?

Postby GroundquestMSA » Mar 4, 2015 3:22 am

Thank you to those who kindly encouraged me to put this stuff out there. I was surprised today to get a batch of copies in the mail, and I see that the NSS bookstore is carrying a new "Caves of..." book. If ever ego was involved in my desire to publish a few cave descriptions and maps, my ignorance and all-around dependence on patient assistance from others leaves me feeling gravely indebted to the people involved in helping (doing it for) me. If the finished product is not as polished as it could be (it isn't), I beg to take the blame. Given what the editor had to work with, the results are splendid. And if the book is in some small measure enjoyed by anyone, please credit Tom Rea, Curt Harler, Horton Hobbs, my little brother, and the nice people who said nice things to me when I asked for input. :waving:
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Re: Can I or should I publish this boring cave info.?

Postby ohiocaver » Mar 5, 2015 5:30 pm

Jonah's book is now available at the NSS Bookstore. Grab a copy.
[url=http://postimg.org/image/lex35gcbv/][img]http://s9.postimg.org/lex35gcbv/curt_Bryants_Cave_Indiana.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://postimg.org/image/eta4ctvar/][img]http://s21.postimg.org/eta4ctvar/cn_oh_isl_coils_cave_curt_sketch.jpg[/img][/url]
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Re: Can I or should I publish this boring cave info.?

Postby NZcaver » Mar 6, 2015 3:05 pm

http://bookstore.caves.org/index.php?mo ... -1134-2919

Catchy description, but which Adams county is this - Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Ohio, Nebraska, Colorado, Washington...? I'm guessing Ohio? :shrug:

Kudos on getting your work published at last, Jonah. :clap:
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Re: Can I or should I publish this boring cave info.?

Postby GroundquestMSA » Mar 6, 2015 3:20 pm

NZcaver wrote:Catchy description, but which Adams county is this - Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Ohio, Nebraska, Colorado, Washington...? I'm guessing Ohio?

Thanks! Did I mention a lack of polish? Yep, it's Ohio. Let's call that oversight a charming oddity ok? The description came from bits of text pulled from the introduction and endnote. I think that stuff is also on the back cover.
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Re: Can I or should I publish this boring cave info.?

Postby driggs » Mar 10, 2015 9:42 am

Image

Congratulations and accolades for your persistence and thorough documentation. Your efforts will serve as the shoulders on which others will stand, no matter how "boring" a karst area you've chosen to study.

:clap:

And now comes the most frustrating part: Expect a half-dozen people to crawl out of the woodwork with corrections, submissions of new caves, and maps that they "forgot" were stuffed away in a cabinet somewhere. You can get started writing the 2nd edition right away... :big grin:
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Re: Can I or should I publish this boring cave info.?

Postby GroundquestMSA » Mar 13, 2015 1:39 pm

Thank you Dave.
driggs wrote:And now comes the most frustrating part: Expect a half-dozen people to crawl out of the woodwork with corrections, submissions of new caves, and maps that they "forgot" were stuffed away in a cabinet somewhere. You can get started writing the 2nd edition right away...

I tried to drag information out of people who may have been involved around here years ago, so if they speak up now it would be a bit frustrating, especially since I was very interested in the history of local exploration and tried to include as much of that as possible in the book. Still, I would like to hear anything new anyone has to say about southern Ohio caves. I expect most of the additions to be provided by my brother and myself... I wrote a new description this morning. I had wanted to wait until I had "everything" before publishing, but another caver wisely told me that fieldwork should never end. She was right, that would be depressing.
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