Why can't we get the NSS News electronically?

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Re: Why can't we get the NSS News electronically?

Postby wyandottecaver » May 10, 2012 6:54 pm

Jeff,

it is a valid question. Since the NEWS is created in COLOR PDF by default, then the only real barrier (and it is a barrier to some degree) is how much "sharing" of the PDF would hurt NEWS sales since you can opt for a non publication version of Membership I think. (or even no membership)

Maybe not enough to matter. Maybe a lot. It might not affect current members, but I am pretty sure if people could get "hooked up" for a current PDF NEWS, then many people might not join at all.

In the case of JCKS, the possibility of "free" PDFs is probably not going to send the membership rushing to not renew...

Just my opinion.
I'm not scared of the dark, it's the things IN the dark that make me nervous. :)
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Re: Why can't we get the NSS News electronically?

Postby scrambler » May 12, 2012 9:25 am

I definitely do NOT want to stoke any fires concerning what the NSS is to each individual--this varies for each person and their focused interest(s). :boxing:

I agree with Jeff and that the original question was never answered. I've read many posts now that say they want the news in print. Well, just so folks hear both sides, I don't. I've dropped my membership level so I specifically do NOT get the News. Nothing against it, I think reading it is a blast, but what do I do with it afterwards? I have stack and stacks and stacks of NSS News and no where to put them. As my mom would say, "they're just collecting dust." (the same goes for other magazine publications...ie National Geographic, etc). While at some point I *may* thumb through them again, for the most part, they are read once and then placed in a stack. Thankfully for now, I have friends who do get the News and so I still get to read it, but without the hassle of trying to find a good place to donate them later. I would prefer the option of having it electronically. For me, it would be a great way to stay in touch with what other cavers are doing, but not have to worry about cluttering up my house. For those who enjoy the paper copy, that should be made available as well. Maybe have it as an option each year as you renew your membership? I don't know, just throwing some stuff out there. I also want to go on record and say that I am not a cost/benefit analysis person, so I have no idea what it might cost (or save) the organization, but I would think that even if it was neutral, it may be a way to go? :woohoo:

And now for the 'other' stuff:
As a scientist, I am definitely biased in wanting to read more cave science related articles/papers. I understand that this may not be the wish of all Society Members, and so it, again, could have the option of being sent electronically. I can print out what I want and leave the rest in cyber space! It's a bit more of a cost to me, but honestly, I think it's something that a responsible scientist could handle. Or, I could just get the printed version and be happy with that! :kewl:

To the OP (who still may be lurking), I agree with you on some of your topics!
Being a civilian scientist (ie. one not associated with a College/University/professional organization, like USGS) is extremely difficult in any field. I was very disheartened when told by folks from the NSF grant that since I wasn't a "professional scientist" that I wouldn't be awarded their grant--well...poop. What I really wanted to respond with was that I *am* a scientist...it *is* my day job...just *not* for a College/University/WELL KNOWN professional organization. <sigh> I don't think it would have made much difference. Thankfully there are other organizations out there who are willing to fund (or take risks to fund) civilian scientists who are interested in cave/karst related areas. It's a matter of perseverance. I was recently awarded a very nice grant that will help continue our project and allow us to expand. Keep trying, even professionals don't always get the grants they were expecting. :tonguecheek:

Apology: I just found where the Smilies were hiding on my computer... :doh:
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Re: Why can't we get the NSS News electronically?

Postby Cheryl Jones » May 12, 2012 4:34 pm

the JCKS (Journal of Caves and Karst) will be distributed electronically to 60% of the membership
the NSS Members Manual will be distributed electronically to 15% of the membership (there was a way to do this?? how do I sign up? The last thing I want is another doorstop cluttering up my desk!)


Easy! :egyptian:
Go to the NSS Membership Change of Info https://secure.caves.org/nssapps/changeinfo.shtml (the link is on the NSS home page), fill in your name and NSS #, and check the box that says:
Opt-out of the Journal of Cave and Karst Studies
__Check this box if you do not want to receive the Journal of Cave and Karst Studies.


Additionally, the opt-out option appears on membership renewal forms.

(Feel free to circulate this information!)

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Re: Why can't we get the NSS News electronically?

Postby NZcaver » May 12, 2012 4:49 pm

scrambler wrote:As a scientist, I am definitely biased in wanting to read more cave science related articles/papers. I understand that this may not be the wish of all Society Members, and so it, again, could have the option of being sent electronically. I can print out what I want and leave the rest in cyber space! It's a bit more of a cost to me, but honestly, I think it's something that a responsible scientist could handle. Or, I could just get the printed version and be happy with that!

Totally reasonable. I assume you realize JCKS articles are already available online for downloading/printing, right? See http://www.caves.org/pub/journal/ and scroll down.

But like the NSS News online archive at http://www.karstportal.org/taxonomy/term/948, it seems the JCKS material may also be intentionally "delayed" by about a year before being published online. Plugging that gap would be the last step needed for those who choose to go all-electronic.
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Re: Why can't we get the NSS News electronically?

Postby NZcaver » May 12, 2012 4:57 pm

Cheryl, I believe John was asking how to opt out of the printed Member's Manual and have it sent electronically instead. The member change of info form only shows instructions for opting out of the JCKS.
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Re: Why can't we get the NSS News electronically?

Postby Cheryl Jones » May 12, 2012 6:19 pm

But like the NSS News online archive at http://www.karstportal.org/taxonomy/term/948, it seems the JCKS material may also be intentionally "delayed" by about a year before being published online.

It's supposed to be available online as soon after it is published as possible, unless the rule has changed (haven't seen a Board act to that affect.) I don't know what the current delay is in getting out the recent issue/s. I asked back at the beginning of the month, but have not yet received an answer.

NZcaver wrote:Cheryl, I believe John was asking how to opt out of the printed Member's Manual and have it sent electronically instead. The member change of info form only shows instructions for opting out of the JCKS.

Oh, hmmmm, yeah, I guess so. No matter, maybe folks reading this didn't know they could opt out of the Journal. I'm surprised that a large % of the membership hasn't opted out, given the number of comments I hear about people not reading or wanting to receive it.

:off topic:
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Re: Why can't we get the NSS News electronically?

Postby Teresa » May 12, 2012 7:26 pm

scrambler wrote:I definitely do NOT want to stoke any fires concerning what the NSS is to each individual--this varies for each person and their focused interest(s). :boxing:

I agree with Jeff and that the original question was never answered. I've read many posts now that say they want the news in print. Well, just so folks hear both sides, I don't. I've dropped my membership level so I specifically do NOT get the News. Nothing against it, I think reading it is a blast, but what do I do with it afterwards? I have stack and stacks and stacks of NSS News and no where to put them. As my mom would say, "they're just collecting dust." (the same goes for other magazine publications...ie National Geographic, etc). While at some point I *may* thumb through them again, for the most part, they are read once and then placed in a stack. Thankfully for now, I have friends who do get the News and so I still get to read it, but without the hassle of trying to find a good place to donate them later. :doh:


So, don't donate them. Recycle them. We get piles of slick mags that eventually go out on Thursday with the other single stream recycling. I work on a computer all day, and would rather read other stuff on paper. No biggie. If your town/trash service doesn't have recycling...why not gift them to a local school library?
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Re: Why can't we get the NSS News electronically?

Postby Teresa » May 12, 2012 7:45 pm

Cheryl Jones wrote:It's supposed to be available online as soon after it is published as possible, unless the rule has changed (haven't seen a Board act to that affect.) I don't know what the current delay is in getting out the recent issues. I asked back at the beginning of the month, but have not yet received an answer.


As someone who deals with both print and online versions of a publication, the print pdf has to be converted to a screen pdf and sometimes individual pages need to be tweaked, photos reduced in resolution and other issues sometimes come up in conversion. Although it is more painless since the data already is digital, the file still requires manipulation to get a good onscreen product. Plus, what is the NSS paying KIP to do this? It might be a "finals week" kind of delay...
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Re: Why can't we get the NSS News electronically?

Postby NZcaver » May 12, 2012 8:16 pm

Teresa wrote:So, don't donate them. Recycle them. We get piles of slick mags that eventually go out on Thursday with the other single stream recycling. I work on a computer all day, and would rather read other stuff on paper. No biggie. If your town/trash service doesn't have recycling...why not gift them to a local school library?

I recycled several years worth of JCKS before I opted out of the paper copies. I didn't want to mention this before in case somebody thought I was railing against the Journal, but this was after I offered them to cavers and local grottos, and even a couple of local library and university contacts. To be blunt, nobody wanted them. However the News might appeal to a slightly broader section of the public.

I could be wrong, but I think we're getting the benefits of KIP at no charge.
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Re: Why can't we get the NSS News electronically?

Postby Cheryl Jones » May 12, 2012 10:30 pm

Plus, what is the NSS paying KIP to do this? It might be a "finals week" kind of delay...

KIP kindly donates its services to the Society. They're pleased to have NSS pubs made available to them to help them achieve the goals of the portal. Their activity has slowed over the past couple of years due, I understand, to cuts in grant funding.

The NSS Web site is the primary e-publishing location for the Journal. http://caves.org/pub/journal/index.htm However, it is not published as a mirror image of the paper issue, but instead as individual papers/articles. KIP posts the pdfs or scans of hard copies on its site (as the NSS pub archives area is in the process of doing) so to see the exact issue you need to look there.

(BTW, I see that the Dec. 2011 issue is now online--its wasn't a couple of weeks ago.)

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Re: Why can't we get the NSS News electronically?

Postby scrambler » May 13, 2012 7:49 am

NZ: admittedly I do not spend much time on either the NSS website or cave chat, so thanks for the links and I'll definitely bookmark them!

Teresa: unfortunately, NZ caver was correct in the fact that when trying to pawn the magazines off on other folks, no one wants them. I know multiple librarians, a few principals, and others in the local school systems and no one wants to take any magazines for their kids to look at or even cut up for projects. Recycling is the only other option (much better than a landfill) but it's still sad to essentially throw them away.
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Re: Why can't we get the NSS News electronically?

Postby Teresa » May 13, 2012 11:59 am

Things probably are different in a cave rich area. People *want* to read about caves. Or maybe contact a show cave, and give them a "FREE - TAKE ONE" tent card with them .
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Re: Why can't we get the NSS News electronically?

Postby Don Cuevas » May 19, 2012 6:19 am

Jeff Bartlett wrote:The original question remains unanswered.

Sure, maybe the majority of the membership would prefer a print newsletter -- those of you who don't want no stinkin' fancy electronical newsletter can hold your fire, since it's irrelevant to the point -- and, after all, it is nice to have something tangible for our annual dues.

But what it even 5% of a ~10,000 member population opted into a monthly PDF? Wouldn't 500 fewer copies to print and 500 fewer copies to mail, per month, save the Society about a bajillion* dollars annually? Have any of you looked at how much it costs to print and ship things these days?

Jeff

* this financial figure is an estimate


Hola a todos mis amigos cueveros;
I've been wanting to read the News ever since we moved to Mexico 6 1/2 years ago. But, frankly, I can't afford both the dues and the very high postage. I've been off the membership rolls for about 5 years now. But if the News went digital, I'd re-up in a flash.
(Frankly, the JCKS doesn't interest me, but I'll pay for it, if that's necessary to get the News.)

Saludos,
Don Cuevas (Mike Warshauer)
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Re: Why can't we get the NSS News electronically?

Postby arizonaowl » Oct 1, 2014 5:03 pm

HEAR ! HEAR !
This is my response to such a posting. It is way overdue. Al Copley, 20845
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