Lonesome Dove

[erebus]

I wonder is the NSS Style Guide for Publications can define the tenses of the word dive. The March NSS News includes the following sentence (beginning at the end of page 27):
Devil's Hole, described as a relic of the Ice Age, has been dove to a depth of over 400 feet without the bottom being found.

If I were to write that sentence using all the other words in it, I'd use dived, though that's also kind of inelegant. Anyway, I am pretty sure "has been dove" is all wrong.


It would also be nice if all the items in that "In the Media" section would include the country or state being discussed, preferably near the beginning. I guess I should know where Russell Cave National Monument is, but I don't. If my knowledge of British Isles geography was better, I could at least know with some certainty that the rescue at Pwll Dwfn Cave took place there. The article doesn't actually say. I had to read all the way to the end of the Waitomo Caves article before learning that it's in New Zealand, and then only because of the name of the newspaper.

As I said, if my geography was better, this would not be a problem, but I bet I'm not the only ignorant American puzzled by these things. It doesn't serve the readers very well to make them do further research just to find out what part of the planet is being discussed.

[Dwight Livingston]

Anyway, I am pretty sure "has been dove" is all wrong.

Below is what Merriam Webster's Tenth Collegiate Dictionary has to say about the past participle of "dive," which is what you're after for the case you quoted. Merriam's says "Dove seems relatively rare as a past participle in writing." Perhaps the NSS News article is one of those rare instances. Personally I like taking Merriam's analogy with "drive, drove" and forming the past participle as "diven," as in . . .

Devil's Hole, described as a relic of the Ice Age, has
been diven to a depth of over 400 feet without the
bottom being found.

Dwight

From Merriam's 10th:

Dive, which was originally a weak verb, developed a past tense dove, probably by analogy with verbs like drive, drove. Dove exists in some British dialects and has become the standard past tense especially in speech in some parts of Canada. In the U.S. dived and dove are both widespread in speech as past tense and past participle, with dove less common than dived in the south Midland area, and dived less common than dove in the Northern and north Midland areas. In writing, the past tense dived is usual in British English and somewhat more common in American English. Dove seems relatively rare as a past participle in writing.

[Teresa]

I wonder is the NSS Style Guide for Publications can define the tenses of the word dive. The March NSS News includes the following sentence (beginning at the end of page 27):
Devil's Hole, described as a relic of the Ice Age, has been dove to a depth of over 400 feet without the bottom being found.

If I were to write that sentence using all the other words in it, I'd use dived, though that's also kind of inelegant. Anyway, I am pretty sure "has been dove" is all wrong.

Take a wander through the dictionaries. Dived/dove is one where either is correct as simple past tense. The trouble here is passive sentence structure and a comma splice of two sentences. The irregular verb should be dive/dove/diven, but no one actually uses diven-- instead 'dived' is used as the past participle-- He dives, he dove, (or dived) He has diven (or has dived). What confuses this sentence is the addition of the word been, substituting be plus past participle for an actual subject. It is hard to tell from the original sentence the time frame referred to, and that time frame would determine if it is simple or perfect past tense is correct.

Sentence should be rewritten: "Devils Hole is considered a relic of the Ice Age. Divers have penetrated to 400 feet without finding bottom. "

[Squirrel Girl]

Cave divers like "dove" though it strikes me as wrong the way they use it. I sometimes wonder if it's like us not liking "spelunking." They just happen to like "dove."

[erebus]

I think Teresa is wholly correct; the sentence should be rewritten, because there's no way to get "has been" to work well with any form of "dive".

I don't think you can apply the drive/drove analogy. Nobody would say "has been drove".

[George Dasher]

I'd just reword the thing...

Divers have gone to a depth greater than 400 feet without finding the bottom.

[Squirrel Girl]

OK, as I posted a month or two ago, grammar is a bugaboo of mine. Nevertheless, I still think "dove" is jargon to divers. I searched "has been dove" on The Deco Stop and found a number of examples (what else am I gonna do while I gnosh my Kung Po chicken?)

Suit was built in Nov. 04 at a cost of $2400 and has been dove two times.

Eagle's Nest has been dove since the early 60's, since then there have been AT LEAST seven fatalities there.....FIVE were "experienced", certified cave divers.

The F4 has been dove before in the mid 1990's, its just that no one publishes the numbers out so everyone had to refind it.

This was a custom from DUI and has been dove only a handful of times and is in excellent shape.

This must be a favorite spot since a burbot has been seen by Kevin in this location every time this wreck has been dove.

I think this is all just kerfuffle. <wink, wink>

[erebus]

If the only justification for using it that way is that it's jargon, then there's no good reason for using it that way. It's not like you (or the divers) have to say it that way because there isn't any other way. It sounds so very wrong, in every instance.

[Squirrel Girl]

If the only justification for using it that way is that it's jargon, then there's no good reason for using it that way. It's not like you (or the divers) have to say it that way because there isn't any other way. It sounds so very wrong, in every instance.

Hey wait a minute. *I* don't say it that way. But what is jargon if not saying something one way when there IS another way to say it?

For example, "My bad." That still grates on me, even it does make sense--I think it came from "My bad throw" from basketball. And now it's everywhere.

[icave]

I just read an article on MSNBC (see Mayan underworld holds natural wonders in Caving in the News) in which they had a similar sentence. This is the phrasing Tim Gaynor from Reuters used:

The pools range in depth from a few feet (a meter) to an abyss where explorers have still not touched bottom at over 500 feet (150 meters).

[erebus]

I bump up against jargon frequently in my work. Engineers love it. 98% of jargon is unnecessary and needs replacing, because it just serves as in-crowd slang for geeks. That 98% can be replaced with standard English and be clear to anyone. The 2% of jargon that's actually useful says something specific that would require a lot of explanation otherwise, and is generally understood within the discipline that uses it. That jargon is known as "terms of art".

"Had been dove" isn't even close to falling within the 2%. It is as annoying to me as "my bad," which even today has me waiting for the rest of the statement - Your bad what?

[NZcaver]

...For example, "My bad." That still grates on me, even it does make sense--I think it came from "My bad throw" from basketball. And now it's everywhere.

Yeah, I'm guilty of that one. My bad.

It's another one of those lazy (American) slang terms I seemed to have picked up. They drive my poor mother insane! Oh, and I should add that lazy slang terms are certainly not just restricted to American English - just in case anybody got offended...

I hadn't heard of the "my bad" basketball origin before. I heard it was derived from the semi-rhetorical question "Am I bad?". Cut the syllables down, remove the question mark (therefore admitting "I AM Bad"), and you get "my bad".
Simple!