Troop 370- Caving Trip 2008

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Re: Troop 370- Caving Trip 2008

Postby buddyh » Dec 2, 2009 10:47 pm

:grin:
This has me thinking on other opportunities to use commercial caves that offer wild cave adventures. Last spring I could only locate a few. They were Mammoth Cave, Laurel Caverns in SW Pa and Wind Cave in South Dakota. Now I can add Raccoon Mountain at Chattanooga TN on the web at http://www.raccoonmountain.com/html/cave.html. Does anyone know of any others in the continental US? If you do know of others, please post or send to me the name and URL.

I'll post the list once the replies tend to slow down.

Tx
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Re: Troop 370- Caving Trip 2008

Postby Mudduck » Dec 3, 2009 11:01 am

Lost Sea Caverns(aka Craighead) in Sweetwater, TN offers them or used to. That was my first when I was young. Blanchard Springs in Arkansas for another. These are just two I remember off hand. They are really too numerous to mention. Almost every commercial cave I've been to offers some sort of wild tour. BTW I did'nt disagree with any of your points on early consistant training. I just tend to go about it a different way by giving them a slight taste then if they bite I train them as far as they want to go. After T-Rock next weekend we're planning a ridge walk for those that are interested enough so they can get some experience on that aspect. Kids these days have sooooo many directions to go for entertainment ,its almost a shame. Of course thats where the phrase "Jack of all trades, Master of none" comes from.
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Re: Troop 370- Caving Trip 2008

Postby amaddox » Dec 3, 2009 7:02 pm

Mudduck wrote:......................... After T-Rock next weekend we're planning a ridge walk for those that are interested enough so they can get some experience on that aspect. Kids these days have sooooo many directions to go for entertainment ,its almost a shame. Of course thats where the phrase "Jack of all trades, Master of none" comes from.


Steve, I'd like to hear how your ridge walk goes. I did one last year with HS kids. I thought they'd be bored, but they just finished finals and were happy to just get outside and walk in the woods. :banana_yay: It was a great day, eventhough we didn't find anything.
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Re: Troop 370- Caving Trip 2008

Postby Mudduck » Dec 3, 2009 8:11 pm

Ok i missing something. Whos Steve?? :big grin:
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Re: Troop 370- Caving Trip 2008

Postby amaddox » Dec 3, 2009 9:56 pm

Mudduck wrote:Ok i missing something. Whos Steve?? :big grin:

Sorry, i wasn't looking close enough. I know a guy in WV who has a similar moniker. But I'd still like to hear about the ridge walk.
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Re: Troop 370- Caving Trip 2008

Postby wyandottecaver » Dec 3, 2009 10:31 pm

Buddy,

Marengo Cave in Indiana has excellent crawling tours.

I will disagree with you about equipment, though being an Eagle Scout I understand the BSA enfatuation with "stuff". Even as a full-growed caver I see 1st aid kits for every caver as redundant and depending on what is in them over-bulky. Generally, injuries will be so minor as to not require immediate first aid or so major that appropriate supplies arent likely to be available from most cavers. Certainly a couple tylenol, and a small waterproof bandage could be useful and are non bulky. Beyond that it can either wait till your out or you can wait till someone gets there. I do keep a few "leftover"prescription painkillers in a waterproof vial just in case, but would certainly not condone that as a standardized practice...

I was once asked by a scout group I was leading as to what first aid I carried in case someone got hurt. I replied I had a flask of whisky and a .45 pistol. They seemed to excercise much more caution in traversing the cave after that! :big grin:
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Re: Troop 370- Caving Trip 2008

Postby buddyh » Dec 4, 2009 11:08 am

Any names or links to caves that offer wild tours would great. The BSA Troop I am registered with is very adventure based with trips around the country and even abroad.

As for the first aid kit I do not require much. The primary items are first, the knowledge, second is non latex gloves, and after that personal med's and a whistle. Though a whistle is not really a first aid item but the kit is a great, common or known place to keep one. I make the point that many items in the pack are multipurpose. Duct or athletic tape can be used in so many ways. The bandanna I show them also so has many uses. I solicit possible uses for the items I carry and explain why I carry what I do. I do not ask they carry SOAP notes, irrigation syringes, miles of gauze, a thousand bandaids. I suggest Chapstick and a few Anacin type pills, especially for the folks approaching my age or older.

Let me know how you prepare a group for caving or other adventures. I find games are a great way to get people to remember how to apply what I've taught. Having a relay race to put on a harness or crawl through an obstacle course of tables, chairs or what ever is on hand, just like they did in the OCR (CRO) photos on my website. To solicit questions and answers, I find Starburst candies are great, even adult leaders will ask a question then. They are easily thrown to, not at, the person responding. I don't tell the students that they will get a candy for asking a question but after the first person to ask a question or answer one receives one you better be ready for the onslaught.

I also solicit feedback from the participant. They may do this either online or I take my computer and ask them to writhe three sentences. What they liked. What they did not like. What could be improved. The Scouts often do a thorn and roses session before heading home. I can get a good idea of how the whole trip went. I often request a thorns and roses session.

I learn from others so I may share with others.

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Re: Troop 370- Caving Trip 2008

Postby wyandottecaver » Dec 4, 2009 6:13 pm

well not sure about chapstick and caving...but most of your items are quite reasonable. I too carry some duct tape wrapped around my nalgene water bottle. But even if they may be useful, the issue becomes bulk and complexity vs utility at least for me.

I also talk a lot about context when doing "cave talks" with groups. I generally bring my dry horizontal, vertical, and wetsuit caving gear and talk about the various issues related to each. I also hit hard the fact that most cave rescues involving an injury will last many hours or even days. What you bring is thus situational. Thus, if it is 4 people doing a hard push trip in a complex vertical cave then complex pack contents can be expected. If its 25 scouts with experianced guides in a bunny cave then they may not even have packs.

being a prolific if not professional cave photographer I have developed a powerpoint that gives a good visual tour of many cave situations including some you should avoid!

Relay races and games are great kid activities. But I'd be sure to stress that getting in a hurry in a cave...especially with vertical gear....injures and kills people. Its hard enough to get kids to take time and double check anyway. Just my 2 cents.
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Re: Troop 370- Caving Trip 2008

Postby buddyh » Dec 5, 2009 7:30 pm

Yes, Chapstick is a good first aid item. It contains an antiseptic and a barrier all in handy applicator. Carry it everywhere but do not keep it in your tent when in bear country.
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Re: Troop 370- Caving Trip 2008

Postby David Grimes » Dec 5, 2009 7:48 pm

I will second Marengo Cave here is the link: http://www.marengocave.com/groups/

They have great "wild" caving tours. My caving group (not kids) will be visiting the "New Discovery" section of the cave next week. I think they do scout trips to this area but not all of it. They also allow access to another cave on the property that is a wild stream cave named "Old Town Spring", I hear allot of scout groups visit that one as well and as far as I know they do not charge a fee for visiting that one. Wyandottecaver may be more knowledgable on Old Town Spring cave as I have never been in it.
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Re: Troop 370- Caving Trip 2008

Postby caverdan » Dec 6, 2009 6:50 pm

Both tour caves in Colorado (Cave of the Winds and Glenwood Caverns) offer wild cave trips for scout and youth groups.
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