Anyone else work with Girl Scout troops?

[monicak]

I have been researching Girl Scout Safety regulations on caving, councils own earned awards and trips. Seems to be lots going on. Let us know what you know! Thanks

[monicak]

OK then.

You may not be willing to talk about caving with girl scout troops. I understand. Some of you recognize that I am serious and that is fine.

to tell you troops of Girl Scouts are out there somewhere caving with some kind of experts I just thought it might be you.
Monica

[Wayne Harrison]

Monica,

Some of the people involved in youth group caving aren't as active on this forum as others are...and probably haven't seen your message. I would suggest trying the Youth Group Caving section of the site. You'll find info, brochures and much more:

http://www.caves.org/youth/

[Cheryl Jones]

And I know that Pat Bingham, NSS Youth Group Liaison has worked closely with the Girl Scouts in developing guidelines, etc. (See the credits on some of the material on the Youth Group Caving Web page.)

Patience grasshopper! As Wayne said, I suspect that folks who've caved with Girl Scouts have not read your message.

Are you a caver? Or just interested in taking Girl Scouts caving? That wasn't clear from your message, and probably will make a difference on the way cavers will respond. And it wasn't quite clear to me what information you're looking for.

There's a lot of good info about caving with youth groups within this forum topic, but don't think there's been much focus on Girl Scouts...Boy Scouts seem to get all the attention! And I suspect they are the groups which whom cavers have had the most experience.

Cheryl

[monicak]

Yes I am a caver. Member of CCCC, formerly with Philly Groto in the 80s and really just rejoining the NSS. I do have a troop. I did a troop presentation several years ago. I am in contact with Allen and Pat.

I agree the forum is very Boy Scout oriented. I just think that a google search for caving and Girl Scouts should lead to the NSS website. All we have to do is chat about it!
Thanks for the feed back.
-- Monica

[amaddox]

Yes I am a caver. Member of CCCC, formerly with Philly Groto in the 80s and really just rejoining the NSS. I do have a troop. I did a troop presentation several years ago. I am in contact with Allen and Pat.

I agree the forum is very Boy Scout oriented. I just think that a google search for caving and Girl Scouts should lead to the NSS website. All we have to do is chat about it!
Thanks for the feed back.
-- Monica

Keep chatting it up. We need somthing on the NSS/Youth site as well as stuff here for GSUSA leaders and cavers to refer to when googling for info. These are probably the first places that cavers will look for information.
I really hate to say it, but as we discussed before, I'm not sure a lot of leaders think of caving as a possible activity for Senior Girl Scouts (I guess that names changing, isn't it). We need to talk about how to get that information to them.

Allen, Pennsylvania RC

[Teresa]

Actually, some of the (former name Cadette) GS girls (7-9th grade) are old enough to fit the BSA criteria for wild cave trips.

The sad fact is: (and I say this as 9 year alumna of the GSA) by the time girls get to the age they are now calling Studio 2B (11-17) they tend to split forever into outdoor and non-outdoor girls. The outdoor girls often drop GSA, and find a co-ed Venture Crew because the troop leaders themselves don't feel up to the challenge of strenuous outdoor things like caving, rockclimbing, and so forth, replacing those sort of activities with civilized travel. As a kid, we troop camped all the time, but the big thing for latter girlscout years put the older girls as camp counselors for the younger, and we worked for two years to take a trip to DC, with bus, hotels, restaurants and so forth.

There are a few notable exceptions: Joey Fagan has been very involved with GSA in Virginia, for example. There are individual troop leaders, of course, but for every hundred BSA troops who want to cave, there may be 5 or fewer GSA troops.

If cavers want to involve girls in caving, it's going to be up to the NSS to do the outreach, IMO.

[monicak]

GSUSA's Safety-Wise ,the national standards have changed. Briefly, show cave tours are allowed for 5- 8 year old girls. At this age girls would enjoy almost any tour, even cool science.

Junior GS are 9-11 and GSUSA has safety check points for wild caving with an expert. I can see on web searchs that councils are offering some of this kind of programs and even weeklong camps for girls this age. Juniors is a crucial age for scouts because they often give up scouting for other things.

Caveing safety standards exist for Girls 11 to 17 too. These do mention the NSS and this website. All GS trips require a first aider in attendence. Safety- Wise checkpoints for wild caving and repelling require a higher level of first aid certification and when help is more than 15 minutes away. Several different certificates and organizations are mentioned.

Several GSUSA councils have developed badge work for caving too. And they make these available to GS leaders in other councils thru their shops. One older girl IPP requirement choices is attend a Crawlathon or Speilofest!

Thanks for participating in the discussion.
Monica

[Teresa]

Having dealt with younger Girl Scouts, I disagree with the assessment that show cave tours are appropriate for Daisy Scouts, and having nearly been trampled by Brownies, I somewhat wonder about the appropriateness of them, except in small groups.

I think the time to really hit the GSA is the 9-11 Juniors--this is the age where girls first start to choose for themselves the things they are interested in pursuing--this age, and the 12-14 year old set are likely where girls are beginning to explore the world (4th to 9th grade) --after childhood, but before societal expectations and peer pressure become the sole focus of the majority.

Even though a troop must have a 'first aider' it is likely their knowledge isn't adequate for cave trips.
Granted, you rarely have serious mishaps in trips deemed easy enough for 9-14 year olds, but I'd be uncomfortable with depending solely on the troop for medical first aid. (This is because I remember a campout where the first aider's daughter shinnied up a grape vine, swung out, fell, and knocked herself out. The hysterical person screaming was the first aider...)

Good luck with your quest.

[monicak]

Daisy scouts are exciting to work work with! I think the best way for them to travel is with a parent. We have to transport with appropriate carseats so that is best left to parents too. This is also true of younger brownies.

I wonder if cub scouts this age visit tour caves?

Point taken on the first aider. It is most challenging to provide emergency care for your own family members, especailly kids, no matter what your certification is and how much actual experience one has.

[ek]

Monica--

My friend Annie (also from SUOC) and I have recently taken girl scouts wild caving. I hope to continue to do so in the future. We did this as volunteers with the Girl Scout Council of Central New York. A troop leader, GSSCNY's outdoor program manager, and another adult were also present. We went to Clarksville Cave. I am a bit unclear about what information you are looking for, or if you have already obtained the information you were looking for, but I'd be pleased to answer any questions. I don't know a whole lot about the Girl Scouts regulations pertaining to who can go caving and what things girls can do in caves (e.g. SRT), but if this is what you want to know then I can refer you to some of the people Annie and I worked with.

Are you looking for people to assist with Girl Scouts caving trips?

[NZcaver]

My friend Annie (also from SUOC) and I have recently taken girl scouts wild caving. I hope to continue to do so in the future. We did this as volunteers with the Girl Scout Council of Central New York. A troop leader, GSSCNY's outdoor program manager, and another adult were also present. We went to Clarksville Cave.

You weren't in Clarksville last Saturday (the 3rd), were you?

Just wondering if you were one of the many groups we saw that day...

[ek]

Nope--but I did go to Onesquethaw on Saturday (with SUOCers, no Girl Scouts), so you might have seen us driving by.

[NZcaver]

You had two vehicles, right? We saw them as we passed by on the way home. If Clarksville was anything to go by, the water level should have been nice and low for you guys as well.


OK, so we didn't have any Girl Scouts in our group that day. But we did have 2 first time cavers along - a father and son (age 11) both involved in Scouting. They had a great time. This exposure may help pave the way for future trips for more of their Boy Scouts. When the suitability of an activity like caving is in question for any group (Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, etc), I think taking 1-3 adult leaders/helpers on a regular informal caving trip along with their own kids can be a great way for them (and us) to gage how well caving "fits."

And for what it's worth, years ago I helped facilitate a few caving trips for Ranger Guides (this is what early/mid-teen girl scouts are called in NZ). The girls and their leaders had a great time, and couldn't wait to go again.

[ek]

Yep--two vehicles, one silver and one white.

When the suitability of an activity like caving is in question for any group (Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, etc), I think taking 1-3 adult leaders/helpers on a regular informal caving trip along with their own kids can be a great way for them (and us) to gage how well caving "fits."

That's a good idea. I may see if I can do something like this for vertical caving, provided that there are interested kids and adults who are interested to learn some SRT and are appropriately mature for the activity.