what gear first?

[activeshooter]

hello folks, I'm starting to gather caving gear and had a question for the hive. If most of my caving is done in Mo. what gear should i get first? cavesuit, of vert gear? cave pack recomendations? high sierra has a hydration pack marketed to bicycle riders that incorperates a mesh helmet hammock that looks pretty slick, as far as helmets and lights i already have a fenix hp10 and petzl elios on the way. so what says you?
ps sorry bout spelling and grammar but i feel lazy today.

[Chads93GT]

headlamp(s), helmet, knee pads, boots, decent pack and a good supply of crappy clothes. vertical gear, get it as you need it, unless you simply want it.........but learn to use it first. cave suit, never worn one yet.

[Chads93GT]

by the way, where at in missouri?

[activeshooter]

I'm in Ks but seems like the majority of the grottos caving is in pulasky(sp) and hickory countys and on the onsr. the latter being my fav

[Chads93GT]

only because they aren't cool enough to cave in perry county ;) hauahua

[Chads93GT]

By the way, aren't all the caves in the MTNF and the ONSR now closed to WNS? could have sworn a dude from the DNR stated that at the MVOR in Black, MO, or something.

[activeshooter]

i have heard that some groups were trying but not positive on the progress of that yet, may have to reread some e-mails. i'm currently not caving due to injury but should be up and going by march or april and can't wait. i am of the understanding that some of the trips aren't recreation, but monitoring trips thru conservation groups(but don't really know, i just help when and where i can, and get to cave in return). wns protocols have been observed as long as i have been caving with the group. (not long)

[activeshooter]

but back to topic any recommendations ? what gear do you find invaluable? best gear? this thread could be valuable to others as well. even some debate is good.

[Chads93GT]

really anything listed above, without any of it, you could get seroiusly hurt. no knee pads, trip and fall, busted knee. No helmet? ive hit my head on LOTS of stuff in cave and my helmet is gored bad from it. imagine that with your head, it hurts too as ive done that. poor lights? cant see, trip and fall, no knee pads, see busted k no pack, cant hold your nee. Crappy boots? and I mean crap, fall apart in cave leaving you to walk on only socks, cobble, sharp rimstones, ouch, no grip on mud, lots of falling, wears you out quickly. no pack, cant hold extra supplies.

base layers are also invaluable, without them you will freeze out on even a basic tirp.

[Cody JW]

headlamp(s), helmet, knee pads, boots, decent pack and a good supply of crappy clothes. vertical gear, get it as you need it, unless you simply want it.........but learn to use it first. cave suit, never worn one yet.

I have a cave suit (2 piece custom) and never wear it.It is too hot for me.I know there are various materials that these suits can be made of but the ones I have used are too hot for me.I have found the ready to wear suits do not fit me,I am 5 foot 9 with a 46 chest and 36 waist so if I find one that will go around my chest the crotch will hang to my knees because the manufacturer assumes if you have a 46 chest you are 7 feet tall.I cave in Indiana ,Kentucky and TAG and I find myself most comfortable in Jeans with single layer poly pro bottoms and a stay dri t- shirt and a military style long sleeve (BDU) top.When I get in large breakdown filled passage I am fine with just jeans and t-shirt, I have had to shed the poly pro and long sleeve top and pick them up on my way out lots of times.I have only been caving in Missouri a couple times but I hear they have lots of wet muddy ones so maybe the dress is different for those.I am sure Chad would know best for those, sounds like he likes to get wet.

[Chads93GT]

It really depends. The amount of true wetsuit caves in my area actually aren't high. Most caves seem to be paleo segments of the much larger systems in the county, so they really arent that wet. Sure they are wet, and muddy, but not 3-4-5 feet of water constantly like other caves. Generally any trip like that you would be going on, you would be told in advance what you need if you are invited on a trip like that.

[JR-Orion]

For backup lights, I became rather fond of the Princeton Tec Impact II on a recent trip. It's small, puts out enough light, and is supposed to run for 70 hours on 4 AAAs. Also happy with the Impact XL- 50 hours on 4 AAs.

And maybe it's not the most exciting thing in the world to pick out, but I have been really happy with Eneloop batteries. I use them in my cave lights, Wii remotes, digital camera, and so on.

For packs, check out Lost Creek, Swaygo, Gonzo Guano Gear, and OnRope1. Lots of variety depending on what you need.

Kneepads and elbow pads- that's something I'm still looking into myself.

[Amazingracer]

no knee pads, trip and fall, busted knee.

I wouldnt necessary assert that as true. Knee pads are worn to protect your knees when crawling mainly. You could still very easily fall with or without knee pads and mess up your knee. I know people who still cave without them.

As far as good gear, at Georgia Tech we use the following for our Horizontal Caving classes:

Ecrin Roc Helmet
Princeton Tec Apex (Primary)
Princeton Tec Quad (Backup)
Lost Creek Cave Pack
Gloves
Kneepads

Those items are a pretty good standard for horizontal caving. However the products that can fill those different item requirements is a really wide variety. Its even more complex for vertical gear. For example this is my standard horizontal setup:

Ecrin Roc Helmet
Scurion P7 (primary)
Petzl Tikka (backup)
Swaygo Pit Pack
Expedition Essentials Kneepads
Gloves

Stick to the basic helmet, 2 sources of light, pack, gloves, and knee pads setup and you are golden.

[verticalAndy]

base layers are also invaluable, without them you will freeze out on even a basic tirp.

I live in Pennsylvania, and can't stress the importance of base layers. I feel that I was given good advice when I started caving last year. If you get cold in a cave, it sucks. My Grotto was able to lend lights and a helmet. Borrowing equipment for the first few trips helped me realize what I liked and what I didn't. Now that we have to deal with WNS, I'm not sure how practical it is for a Grotto to loan equipment. The most important part of my caving equipment is my warm socks and polypropal undersuit. I also like caving with those cheap gloves that are dipped in latex (about $3/pair).

I went to an automotive store and bought a used (and cleaned) set of coveralls for about $10. I was told that they would rip and wear out pretty fast, but I figured that I could see what everyone else was wearing while my coveralls were falling apart and would purchase something better when I needed to. One year later and I'm still wearing my cheap coveralls.

I went to K-mart and purchased a backpack on sale for about $5. The zipper sucks, but it works well to carry my extra stuff.

I recently started to acquire vertical gear and my philosophy has changed. I don't want to skimp on equipment that will be responsible for my life support, so I'm buying gear a piece at a time, only as I need it. I have not yet taken my Vertical gear into a cave (it's always been isolated from my other cave gear). Since I don't know how I feel about decontaminating my Vertical Gear, I've chosen to not use it in a cave until I do know how I feel about decontaminating my Vertical Gear. In any case, when I start using vertical gear in a cave, I'll probably get a more rugged pack because I don't want to deal with a "wardrobe malfunction" when I'm on rope.

I also cave in either cheap boots or Wellie's. I told myself that if I ever couldn't clean my boots adequately, I would just throw them out. Wellie's work great in caves with less than 1 foot of water; however, they don't provide good ankle support.

Andy

[activeshooter]

if wellies=muck boot i think that the mud i have experienced would be a contra indicator of those i would lose them quick. as far as gear i have, ups will be delivering an petzl elios and a fenix hp10, monday. I have grubby clothes and underarmor type base layers. cheap but reliable handhelds for secondary and tertiary lights. decent leather boots and smartwool and woolblend socks. as far as a pack i've used a cheap backpack, but was wondering if a swaygo or the ilk is worth the $$$$$.
edited to add should i start acquiring vert gear but abstain from caving with it until wns is under control or has faded? I'm worried about the ramifications of protocols.