Back-Up Lights

[wyandottecaver]

I too have referred to my cavin buddies as my backup lights. However... I will relate a true life adventure though not my own.

2 very experianced cavers (even famous/infamous in 1 case) were pushing a new "secret" cave that had several drops and traverses and some other "technical" areas. Being a new cave there was also lots of unstable material around. These 2 cavers were deep in the cave when within a short time of each other both of their primaries (time tested electric cave lamps) died. They both switched to their electric backups which were chosen for being small and lightweight to carry..not reliable or particularly bright. They two cavers wisely headed out, but it was a long, dim, tricky trip out and if one of the cheap backups had died they would have been in a bit of a pickle. While headed out they realized that while people knew they were caving, besides themselves the only other people who actually knew about the cave were thousands of miles away in Mexico on a extended trip.....

Always carry at least 1 backup and make sure its a good one, and don't count on your buddies light too much!

[Cody JW]

I would like to share a story about the mini -mag.Back in the mid 80s I went on a trip to Skylight Dome Pit in Kentucky (125feet).My buddy dropped a mini mag from about 40 feet from the floor,he did not feel it was worth doing a change over to retrieve ( I know a conservation no no) and left it there in a pool of water at the bottom.Much to my surprise I came back about 3 months later thinking it would be long gone.Guess what, it was still there and working after laying in water all that time.I will never doubt the reliability of those, now you can buy LED upgrades I trust them further than I would a sten, apex, fennix or anything.I honestly feel my mini mag is a better trustworthy light than my primary.

[tncaver]

Three sources of light is a must. Twice I've been at the limit of all three. Both times all of us were on the limits of all three of our lights. This was before
compact LED's existed, which use small, lightweight batteries. Back in "the day" we used electric rechargeable mining lights with big, bulky, heavy, belt attached batteries. Back ups could be a mini mag, hand held flashlight, or a carbide light. Unfortunately, none of us had a carbide light. Our mining lights and mini-mags were just about done for. Mini mags only lasted about two hours on a set of batteries back then. Literally, we were taking turns running one light at a time and letting the main lights self recharge before turning on for about three minutes before they died again. We made it out and just in time.

Thank goodness modern LED's last for many more hours than the old bulky mining lights and mini mags. However, there is still the danger that an LED might
have undercharged batteries, previously used batteries or a malfunction. Therefore, it is still important to have three sources of light no matter how good
your main light is.

[Chads93GT]

I've yet to have a close call like that, but some of the guys on survey projects have left their side packs at the enterance of what we thought was a small side passage, dead end, survey. Only to have it keep going and going and going and going. they made it back to their packs with their lights on LOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW. Ive yet to be put in that position yet. Im sure it will happen though.

[pub]

Please see my post at Re: fenix headlamp and MYO XP vs Apex

[Steven Johnson]

Modern LED lights have gotten so cheap, reliable, and long-lasting that I get really annoyed now if I go on a trip and someone has a craptacular lighting system... when it comes to caving, light failure is a guaranteed way to ruin your day really fast. Really no excuse for the 3-sources-of-light rule anymore, except for the most trivial of caves...

[NZcaver]

Agreed. As for mini-Mags, they were great lights in their heyday. A common caving backup. I've owned several over the years, and killed a couple of them. One died without me even abusing it - the switch mechanism suddenly failed. They're still solid lights, but now they've been thoroughly eclipsed by more efficient LED lighting. Even the various Mag-LED models were outdated technology as soon as they were released. They're still good lights, but I'd put money on the superior build quality and reliability of my little Chinese-made Fenix over the Maglite any day.

Funny how in the old days cavers would constantly tinker with their carbide lamps and old electrics. It would be common to fix lighting problems several times on one trip without really giving it a thought. This was normal. Nowadays it's all about how much runtime you get out of your LED headlamp between battery changes, and if it's bright enough to pretend you're a train. It's rare to experience serious problems with the newer technology, but when you do... it's usually not something that's easily fixed in the cave. Like Apex lava-lamp syndrome, for example. Whether you're old school or new technology, it's probably best to have a couple of redundant lights handy at all times.

[Cody JW]

With the mag light you can sometimes turn the base that the bulb goes into a quarter turn if the switch does not work.I too have the fennix P3D 215 lumen handheld and love it as a backup.But the fennix, zebra and more current lights cost over 70 bucks or more, the mag is what around 10 bucks.I am just saying for the cost vs durability the mag is a viable light source.I like it because it uses the same AAs that my apex and fennix headlamp uses.To me it is like spending 50 grand on a corvette versus spending 300 grand on a ferrari.

[Chads93GT]

Yeah but......................a.............Ferarri...........................

[Vertigo]

Hmm... a case to consider: A Cave That Eats Lights a year or so ago. We were on our way back from the big pit when suddenly, my Apex failed. Not a minute later my EOS came on, and would not go off, the EOS eventually died. My Zebralight decided to have one of it's battery connection problems just then, and I was not happy, but I got it working. Then my buddy's Apex's started failing...it was not good. We got out ok. But the point is: All the lights were working properly before entering the cave, 2 were working properly when we came out. One of my buddy's Apex, and my Zebralight.
And oh yeah, the time that my other caving buddy had to drop a pit in the dark because both Apex on his helmet died at once. One from dead batteries, and one from some other problem. He used his BIC lighter to see to replace batteries once he got to the floor of the pit.

[NZcaver]

Bummer, dude.

Shoulda had a Stenlight...

[Cody JW]

Yeah but......................a.............Ferarri...........................

A 300 grand Ferarri is about 6 times more than a 50 grand vette, same math as a 10 dollar vs a60 or 70 dollar fennix.The point most people are not millionaires.My two mags have been in the pocket of my pack for 18 years and all I have done is put LEDs in them.They were not in an otter box.They are not as bright as my fennix, but they were 10 bucks and still work after banging around in my pack unprotected for 18 years, I am impressed and still trust them.I also have my fennix and the tikka on my ecrin as well.You do not have to spend a fortune and can still be safe.

[Ernie Coffman]

Jeff, hopefully you have one of those rubber or plastic mouth pieces attached to your MAG, so it's easier to hold in your mouth. Trying to hold them between the teeth, otherwise, is sometimes a major problem. Anyway, all of you seem to be on the same page of carrying a back-up light and that's great! No other way to go; and, do remember going caving with some folks a few years ago that had that same philosophy of having their three sources of light--me and him, etc. Dumb, dumb! Oh, well, some folks just never learn.

[Cody JW]

I spent 5 bucks for a strap that I can wear under my ecrin near the ear that allows me to use the fennix handheld or the mags for hands free use.I carry this in my otter box.I agree with the previous post about the new LED lights that can be used as backups, but I do not agree they are cheap.I have other hobbies and cannot justify 350 for a sten or 100 bucks for a zebra back up.I can justify 70 bucks for a fennix HP-10 and 20 bucks for a couple mags with LEDs.I read the previous posts about the trips where several lights failed.I figure if I go into a cave and my main light fails ( fennix HP-10) then my fennix handheld fails then my two mags fail then the micro mag around my neck fails then the candles I always carry for some reason cannot be used, I will lay down and die and assume it is my time.

[Chads93GT]

I have 2 cabella's 3 watt LED lights i used to wear mounted on my sides. Too heavy. made my head hurt.

bought the fenix and kept my apex on the helmet till i 100% trusted the fenix. The sheer weight of 2 battery packs on the back of the helmet expediated that process. I now have my fenix only on my head. I hate the bulk of side lights, in crawls you have to remove your helmet due to the limited side clearance. I have 2 of those mini mags, but they have no LED's in them and they are very dim.

The problem with the cabella lights is they drain batterys fast. 3 watt, 2 AA's unregulated. Bright at first but they suck juice unless you are using them for........whatever. If i use them these days i just throw them in my pack as well. no otter box, they are waterproof enough as it is.