recharging alkaline batteries

[EquipmentChairman]

I am the equipment chairman of suoc. I order gear for suoc (at least in part (suoc being the syracuse uni. outing club)). I know that our caving leaders (we have a common pool of gear leaders and people who go on trips) end up buying batteries for everyone. It isn't fair. I consulted them about the idea of getting rechargable batteries. They said people wouldn't charge them or they might "walk" off.

So I was wandering the web and saw a number of products claiming that they recharged safely and to an almost complete state. Eliah (our caving chairman) expressed much doubt on the point of safety and said that there were several other issues. He said lighting is a piece of protection, it must be reliable and long lasting. He questioned whether these rechargers, if safe, could really give a reliable charge that was predictable and long lasting enough for caving. He also at least in my interpretation wondered if they might be more inclined to other problems (leaking explosing) especially with the hostile enviroment to electronics that is caving.

I want to know if anyone has voided the warning on batteries and tried this (in or out of caves). I personally think the warning is just to make people scared and pay for landfills.


Joseph

[ek]

To clarify the poll question, Joe is asking specifically about the suitability of recharged alkaline batteries (not batteries that are designed for recharging like NiMH cells).

[Scott McCrea]

KISS. BYOB.

[Caverdale]

As an electrical engineer (retired) who has designed battery-powered equipment for most of his career, I have to say that there is no way to recharge alkaline batteries (cells) and get any practical use or life out of them. The practice is particularly dangerous if you are using them in a cave, because the time before they are dead is totally unpredictable. Putting an alkaline cell into a charger meant for Ni-Cad or NiMH is dangerous and can result in them bursting and spreading the caustic interior all over. Don't do it.

[NZcaver]

My initial reaction is "no."

After a few minutes of web research, my second reaction is also "no."

There's actually a wikipedia entry about recharging disposable alkaline batteries here.

Considering the fickle charging methods involved, the lack of reliability, and the inherent dangers of alkalines overheating and/or leaking, I really don't see the point in attempting to recharge them. Especially now with a range of reliable pre-charged hybrid NiMHs on the market (which hold their capacity even months after last being charged). Sure they're a little expensive, but prices are slowly coming down. Perhaps you could purchase a few sets of these at a time, as the club's money allows? If you come up with a way to label the batteries effectively, hopefully they won't go missing or be thrown away. You'd just need a few people to actually take responsibility for recharging all the batteries after each trip.

And in the meantime, keep it simple and have everyone show up with their own batteries and bring spares - like Scott suggested.
P.S. What caverdale just said.

[EquipmentChairman]

Has anyone actually seen/used of of these comercial chargers. This one supposedly was looked at by hammacher schlemmer institute : http://www.skymall.com/shopping/detail. ... -102828807 . People say they used this one and were happy: http://www.batteryxtender.com/

maybe I am gullible or really don't get the tech, but if there are commercial products wouldn't lawsuits be filed if they caused damage or did not actually effectivly charge batteries. I know skymall isn't exactly the most reputable source, but at the same time the vast majority of their products seem plausable and something someone buys and enjoys.

Joseph

[NZcaver]

I'm still a little skeptical. Search for those chargers on Google. You'll find some good reviews, and some not-so-good.

But hey, if you have a spare $40 - $70 in your pocket... order one and try it out (and let us know how it goes).

[Stridergdm]

Has anyone actually seen/used of of these comercial chargers. This one supposedly was looked at by hammacher schlemmer institute : http://www.skymall.com/shopping/detail. ... -102828807 . People say they used this one and were happy: http://www.batteryxtender.com/

To quote one of my favorite characters on TV, "Well there's your problem. Hamacher Schlemmer is a great company to look at for impossibly, overly expensive gadgets to buy your loved on at Christmas. I wouldn't trust them here.

maybe I am gullible or really don't get the tech, but if there are commercial products wouldn't lawsuits be filed if they caused damage or did not actually effectivly charge batteries. I know skymall isn't exactly the most reputable source, but at the same time the vast majority of their products seem plausable and something someone buys and enjoys.

Joseph

And there may or may not be lawsuits out there, but they may not be completed yet etc. As for Skymall, keep in mind their target audience is the average business traveler who has had 3 martinis at the airport bar before getting on the plane and ordering his $5.00 glass of overpriced "grape juice". (that said I enjoy looking at the magazine too!

I'll have to check with the ROC (Rennselaer Outing Club does). I think our club budget may cover the expensive of buying replacement batteries. Otherwise, like gas money, have folks chip in.

Or go back to carbide. I still love carbide at times.

[Marduke]

Recharged alkalines cells are very prone to leaking, which will ruin a light in short order.

A decent charger and some cheap NiMH cells will pay for themselves VERY quickly. Just don't get Energizer NiMH anything...

[YuccaPatrol]

Just don't get Energizer NiMH anything...

The only truly terrible NiMH batteries I have ever bought have been the Energize 2500 mAh. Totaly junk.

Stick with low-self-discharge Sanyo Eneloops (or Duracell rebranded eneloops) for batteries that will undergo long term storage (longer than a few weeks).

Use quality high capacity NiMH batteries if you want maximum output and use the batteries when they are freshly charged.

[wyandottecaver]

I too would say avoid recharging alkalines. However, to offer a possible solution to your problem I will relate my experiance in operating a commercial cave. We used to simply supply batteries (alkaline) and replaced after each trip. When that got expensive, we switched to rechargeables. less overall expense but even with trained guides we ended up with batteries walking off or not being put on the chargers etc.

The solution that worked was that we asked people to bring a set of new batteries (4 AA) for which we then traded them a helmet and light with batteries already installed. We could usually get 2 trips off of a set of batteries meaning we had a LOT (a large rubbermaid tote) of spares from which we replaced dead batteries, supplied guides with spares, and covered the frequent person who forgot their batteries.(we usually charged them a minimal fee like $2 or just let it slide) Nobody really minded bringing batteries and by getting 2 uses per set we built up a healthy reserve.

[ArCaver]

We could usually get 2 trips off of a set of batteries meaning we had a LOT (a large rubbermaid tote) of spares from which we replaced dead batteries, supplied guides with spares, and covered the frequent person who forgot their batteries.(we usually charged them a minimal fee like $2 or just let it slide) Nobody really minded bringing batteries and by getting 2 uses per set we built up a healthy reserve.

How long were the trips?

I must be the only one to ever have good luck with Energizer batteries. I have some that are at least 5-6 years old and still reliable. I have reconditioned some of them with this: http://www.mahaenergy.com/store/viewite ... roduct=422 . When they were newer I used them for three 4-5 hour trips with no problem. I tried that last year and had to change batteries on the third trip. Mostly I put them on "soft" charge between trips.

[Marduke]

We could usually get 2 trips off of a set of batteries meaning we had a LOT (a large rubbermaid tote) of spares from which we replaced dead batteries, supplied guides with spares, and covered the frequent person who forgot their batteries.(we usually charged them a minimal fee like $2 or just let it slide) Nobody really minded bringing batteries and by getting 2 uses per set we built up a healthy reserve.

How long were the trips?

I must be the only one to ever have good luck with Energizer batteries. I have some that are at least 5-6 years old and still reliable. I have reconditioned some of them with this: http://www.mahaenergy.com/store/viewite ... roduct=422 . When they were newer I used them for three 4-5 hour trips with no problem. I tried that last year and had to change batteries on the third trip. Mostly I put them on "soft" charge between trips.

They were probably not the horrible 2500's sold more recently.

In any event, the newer LSD variety are superior is almost every way.