What biner between H round and croll for frog?

[anthonytsi]

What biner do I need to connect my half round to my petzl croll. Or do I need to go straight connect with the two? Pros and Cons? I want to stay away from aluminum though. Thanks in advance.

[Jeff Bartlett]

What biner do I need to connect my half round to my petzl croll. Or do I need to go straight connect with the two? Pros and Cons? I want to stay away from aluminum though. Thanks in advance.

I connect the croll right to the half-round. The only con is that you can't remove the Croll while you're on rope... but why would anyone want to do that? Save the weight, save the biner, straight to your quicklink.

[Joe Duxbury]

Xcathodex is right, this is really the only way to do it. The Croll is designed to lay flat against the body when connected direct to the half round maillon. If you join the two with a carabiner, the Croll is turned through 90° and no longer lies flat. Also it introduces extra slack in the system, allowing the body to hang further away from the rope and making you use your arms more.

[Ralph E. Powers]

They're very correct and it's probably the safest and strongest way to ensure you're going to STAY on rope. You can use biners on either side of the croll for the other things... I'd also straight connect the QAS and safety of the frog to the H-round as well. If done properly the stress/pressure on the H-round by each should be only one at a time... meaning you're either going to put all your weight on one or the other at any given time.
Either way... it's what the H-round is for and how it's designed with the Frog Harness.

[ian mckenzie]

More biners = more things to accidentally open and/or otherwise go wrong. You also want your Croll as close to your harness as possible, otherwise your handled jammer above will need longer footloops and a longer leash - all bad news. Connect direct - that's how the system components are designed. I put everything on my D directly with no intermediate biner or maillon, excepting my descender and maybe my tacklebag.

[cave rat]

I have seen cavers attach a Quick-Link between the Half-Round and the Croll and the shoulder strap to the Croll with a second QL.

[Jeff Bartlett]

I have seen cavers attach a Quick-Link between the Half-Round and the Croll and the shoulder strap to the Croll with a second QL.

I've seen cavers use spectra cow's tails, doesn't mean I'd recommend it.

[cave rat]

I use one of those......

[ron_miller]

I've seen cavers use spectra cow's tails, doesn't mean I'd recommend it.

Miller's Law. Sounds like we may need a Caverdoc corollary for when Spectra is mentioned in the same sentence!

[caverdoc]

Back in the day, I routinely attached my Spectra cowstails with a 6mm GO maillon rapide

On a serious note, if you are topheavy, using either a 6 or 7mm maillon rapide, preferably the long one (GO= grande overture in French, "large opening" in English)helps shift your center of gravity up the rope slightly. Add in a Pantin or similar foot ascender and you can frog almost as efficiently as the tall, slender cavers that the Frog system seems to favor (see the current 2008 edition of Nylon Highway for more...excellent article on body types in vertical caving).

In using the maillon rapide you don't have to worry about cross-gate loading, like with a conventional carabiner.

Dr J

[NZcaver]

(GO= grande overture in French, "large opening" in English)

Thanks to you, I learned something new today.

Guess I should go replace my Spectra cowstails now... before Miller's Law catches up with me.

[caverdoc]

JC
Go to the Dynema, like a true Jedi!

And remember: Gravity, it's not just a good idea,
it
is
the
law!



Dr J

[anthonytsi]

Thanks for the info y'all.

[Tubo Longo]

I've seen cavers, back in Europe, connecting their Croll to the QL (not necessarily the Half Moon one) with a smaller QL or even two.
The reason was that the alpine caves they were used to cave in usually had nasty tight meanders in between of large deep pit, like 200' and over. To avoid to have to spend a lot of time to open the main QL at either the bottom or the top of every main drop (to take out or inserted back the Croll) they were using a small QL or even two, so to restore the lie-flat position of the Croll against the belly.
The QL used were, if I remember correctly, size 6 or 7, as already pointed out.