"Rechargeable lights have no place in caving"

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Rechargeable lights have no place in caving

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Re: "Rechargeable lights have no place in caving"

Postby Chads93GT » Jan 12, 2009 7:07 pm

I would play devils advocate and vote for carbide but....................ive never used it.
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Re: "Rechargeable lights have no place in caving"

Postby Squirrel Girl » Jan 12, 2009 7:26 pm

xcathodex wrote:His various arguments are dreadfully misguided, but I just don't have the energy to debate it. Of one thing I am certain: Never in my 30 years have I successfully convinced an old, crotchety person that the way they do things is wrong. Why try?

Am I mistaken or snooty to think this guy isn't worth too much bother? Is anybody really gonna read that stuff and believe it?

Does what this really mean is that Dave is desperate for some quality material for the Snooze?
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Re: "Rechargeable lights have no place in caving"

Postby Jeff Bartlett » Jan 12, 2009 8:02 pm

Squirrel Girl wrote:Am I mistaken or snooty to think this guy isn't worth too much bother? Is anybody really gonna read that stuff and believe it?
Does what this really mean is that Dave is desperate for some quality material for the Snooze?


Nah, I'm on board with the "not worth much bother" plan. You think maybe Mr. Lipton is Bunnell's new pen name?
"Although it pains me to say it, in this case Jeff is right. Plan accordingly." --Andy Armstrong
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Re: "Rechargeable lights have no place in caving"

Postby NZcaver » Jan 12, 2009 9:33 pm

I'm tempted to agree with the recent replies, but let's be at least a little respectful of Mr Lipton himself even if we all disagree with his opinions. Although he's not an active member of this forum (to the best of my knowledge), I think we should assume that he IS a real person, a real caver, and probably a long-time NSS member.

xcathodex wrote:His various arguments are dreadfully misguided, but I just don't have the energy to debate it. Of one thing I am certain: Never in my 30 years have I successfully convinced an old, crotchety person that the way they do things is wrong. Why try?

Good point. You're right about some people just never being sold on the error of their old ways, no matter how hard one tries. But when a person publishes their controversial opinion (to put it mildly) in a respected publication, I think it begs for rebuttal to set the record straight. Or at least to provide discerning readers with another viewpoint, and the evidence to back it up. Otherwise, who knows what chaos will ensue? Cavers over the pond and elsewhere in the world may think we all shun rechargeables and take particular glee in dumping even more used alkalines in the landfill! :roll:
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Re: "Rechargeable lights have no place in caving"

Postby Squirrel Girl » Jan 12, 2009 9:48 pm

NZcaver wrote:I'm tempted to agree with the recent replies, but let's be at least a little respectful of Mr Lipton himself even if we all disagree with his opinions. Although he's not an active member of this forum (to the best of my knowledge), I think we should assume that he IS a real person, a real caver, and probably a long-time NSS member.

Indeed, I am trying not to be snooty (and possibly not succeeding). But given that Mr. Lipton seems a little out of date, and perhaps not as actively caving as would be useful for making such broad and definitive statements as he has, is it really worthwhile make a big to do about disagreeing with him? Is it perhaps not more respectful to simply let it go?
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Re: "Rechargeable lights have no place in caving"

Postby NZcaver » Jan 12, 2009 10:00 pm

Squirrel Girl wrote:Indeed, I am trying not to be snooty (and possibly not succeeding). But given that Mr. Lipton seems a little out of date, and perhaps not as actively caving as would be useful for making such broad and definitive statements as he has, is it really worthwhile make a big to do about disagreeing with him? Is it perhaps not more respectful to simply let it go?

Perhaps you're right. We could just let the discussion die a natural death, but where's the fun in that? :devil: Then more of the old-and-bold will be out there spouting all sorts of unsubstantiated nonsense in NSS publications and at events... oh, wait a minute. Some already do. :tonguecheek: I guess I'm being the bad boy stirring the pot and sounding snooty now! :big grin:

But really I'd like to hear more intelligent responses on this topic from some of the very intelligent forum members we have lurking out there.
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Re: "Rechargeable lights have no place in caving"

Postby Squirrel Girl » Jan 12, 2009 10:16 pm

NZcaver wrote:Perhaps you're right. We could just let the discussion die a natural death, but where's the fun in that? :devil:

Oh, dear NZ, you have so far to go to be a true internet :devil:. Come over to The Deco Stop to see how the big boys play that game. The gigundo kerfluffle over the cover of the new Cave Diving book is dying out finally.

I just responded to a long time cave diver who posted today that compared "real cave divers" to top notch maestro pianists, while non-real cave divers are very amaturish. The non-real ones have certifications but don't have that special je ne sais quoi. Hah, I think he's got a small, well, something, to make up for. Yep, people get bored on the internet and have to keep some kind of conversations going.
:boxing: :argue:
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Re: "Rechargeable lights have no place in caving"

Postby Evan G » Jan 12, 2009 11:19 pm

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :funny post:

Well.....(in a french accent) , I carry a big light and it is rechargeable...........


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Re: "Rechargeable lights have no place in caving"

Postby Squirrel Girl » Jan 13, 2009 6:44 am

Evan wrote:Well.....(in a french accent) , I carry a big light and it is rechargeable...........

Ya got it, Evan! :clap:
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Re: "Rechargeable lights have no place in caving"

Postby potholer » Jan 13, 2009 7:00 am

Squirrel Girl wrote:I just responded to a long time cave diver who posted today that compared "real cave divers" to top notch maestro pianists, while non-real cave divers are very amaturish. The non-real ones have certifications but don't have that special je ne sais quoi.

I know a few people who could have *lots* of fun in a conversation like that, as long as it wasn't under their own name.
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Re: "Rechargeable lights have no place in caving"

Postby hank moon » Jan 13, 2009 10:59 am

Un homme sur les genoux n'a pas de place dans la spéléologie.

edited to remove excess "la"
Last edited by hank moon on Jan 13, 2009 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Rechargeable lights have no place in caving"

Postby Squirrel Girl » Jan 13, 2009 11:33 am

hank moon wrote:Un homme sur les genoux n'a pas de place dans la la spéléologie.


No fair! No fair! You actually know French!

I put your sentence into "freetranslation.com" and it says:
A man on the knees has not any place in the spelunking

:laughing:
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Re: "Rechargeable lights have no place in caving"

Postby shibumi » Jan 13, 2009 11:45 am

I don't believe in backup lights. I believe in redundant lights.

In the case of Mr. Lipton, if he goes caving 2-3 times a year for a few hours at a time then
he may well be better off with his setup.

I go caving 2-3 times a week and several trips a year are greater than 12 hours. To get the same
amount of light as my STENs I'd have burned through about six hundred AA cells. The environmental
cost is hands down better on the side of the STEN, and at $.50 a cell, the STENs are halfway paid
off.

Personally, I don't listen much to people who don't use the equipment to anywhere near the level I
do when they make sweeping commentary based on their own limited experience.
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Re: "Rechargeable lights have no place in caving"

Postby Cheryl Jones » Jan 13, 2009 1:48 pm

I don't believe in backup lights. I believe in redundant lights.

Excellent point! :clap: :wtg: We need to change our language.

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Re: "Rechargeable lights have no place in caving"

Postby YuccaPatrol » Jan 14, 2009 1:00 am

I find that torches made from bundles of organically grown reeds soaked in pine resin are the most reliable and environmentally friendly caving lights. :rofl:
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