Cavechat.org

Hey, hey! Here's a system for ascending and descending, as well as being capable of carrying great weighty items, too! See this link, thanks to Kathy Greaves of MLG in Sacramento, CA

http://www.gizmag.com:80/go/6837/

I have to admit it looks pretty cool.

"The latest configuration weighs 20 pounds and peaks at 10 feet per second," he said. "A123Systems has a 150-foot steam tower we were able to use for testing.
We successfully completed a 100-foot continuous ascent to the tower’s platform in 14 seconds."

Be careful not to get your fingers in they way...

I couldn't find a price on it, though. It would sure prove something else in a rescue--cave or otherwise.

Notice in one photo the guy was using the device over a swimming pool. http://www.gizmag.com/go/6837/picture/31219/ Somehow it doesn't give the image of being a safe, sound device when someone is using it over a place that he won't get (seriously) hurt should it come apart from the rope or any other fall-causing events.

Gimme good old fashioned proven, body toning techinques any day.

Maybe I'm just getting old.

Ralph E. Powers wrote:Notice in one photo the guy was using the device over a swimming pool. http://www.gizmag.com/go/6837/picture/31219/ Somehow it doesn't give the image of being a safe, sound device when someone is using it over a place that he won't get (seriously) hurt should it come apart from the rope or any other fall-causing events.

Gimme good old fashioned proven, body toning techinques any day.

Maybe I'm just getting old.

Could just be they needed some place with a high ceiling. I'm inclined to agree with you though, what happens when it fails? Does it detach from the rope or shred the rope? What about when the battery fails, especially in a rescue situation, is the ascender and load stuck on rope? How cave-proof is it?

Interesting idea though. I'd like to see it put through it's paces.

ERH wrote:

Ralph E. Powers wrote:Notice in one photo the guy was using the device over a swimming pool. http://www.gizmag.com/go/6837/picture/31219/ Somehow it doesn't give the image of being a safe, sound device when someone is using it over a place that he won't get (seriously) hurt should it come apart from the rope or any other fall-causing events.

Gimme good old fashioned proven, body toning techinques any day.

Maybe I'm just getting old.

Could just be they needed some place with a high ceiling. I'm inclined to agree with you though, what happens when it fails? Does it detach from the rope or shred the rope? What about when the battery fails, especially in a rescue situation, is the ascender and load stuck on rope? How cave-proof is it?

Interesting idea though. I'd like to see it put through it's paces.

I can think of one place right off top of me head... Sótano de las Golondrinas

Ralph E. Powers wrote:

ERH wrote:

Ralph E. Powers wrote:Notice in one photo the guy was using the device over a swimming pool. http://www.gizmag.com/go/6837/picture/31219/ Somehow it doesn't give the image of being a safe, sound device when someone is using it over a place that he won't get (seriously) hurt should it come apart from the rope or any other fall-causing events.

Gimme good old fashioned proven, body toning techinques any day.

Maybe I'm just getting old.

Could just be they needed some place with a high ceiling. I'm inclined to agree with you though, what happens when it fails? Does it detach from the rope or shred the rope? What about when the battery fails, especially in a rescue situation, is the ascender and load stuck on rope? How cave-proof is it?

Interesting idea though. I'd like to see it put through it's paces.

I can think of one place right off top of me head... Sótano de las Golondrinas

A fall from 20' will kill you.
A fall at Golondrinas, just gives you more time to think about it on the way down...

A failure of this type of motorized ascender would be catastrophic.
From what I can see, there is no backup or safety.

My Petzl ascenders have no backup or safety either. When I climb I use two of them. One backs up the other. Perhaps you could attach a second ascender to the rope at the same time, as a backup.

Also, while I strongly agree with the idea that it is foolish to take risks over short drops that you wouldn't take over long ones, many people do survive drops of 20' onto hard ground. Nobody has ever survived a drop of 1000' onto hard ground without a parachute. I know people who practice falling 20' (albeit onto flat, not rocky, ground) without getting hurt.

Hey there Junkman, I totally agree with your observations of this discussion and surprised that Ralph wrote what he did. Maybe he's having a bad day. Ha! Anyway about it, falls less than 20' have been known to kill, so you're definitely correct! And, then there are miracle falls of over 300' where the guy has survived, so ...right on!

As for the picture of the guy being over the swimming pool, I would have to assume (Oh, oh! I know, I know!) that they're advertising for its usefulness over water situations, like the river, lake, or ocean, as a rescue tool. I can envision that working with a helicopter, so don't think the picture was the best to use, but the concept is there...I do believe.

As for the back-up on the climbing system, again, I agree with you for there could always be a back-up built into the system. On top of all this hype, which none of us have seen--I don't believe--I'm sure that the company has gone through the "ups and downs;" and the "what ifs" before putting it on the market, so...maybe someone can come up with further research and costs, which the latter, I'm sure is way out of line for most cavers. (Maybe not Dick Blentz, though. Hee hee!)

I can see the usefulness if you had to rappel down then return up the rope (like in most caving situations) but how would it be useful for fire rescue someone still has to get the rope to the top before you can ascend it. Plus the other real issue with a motorized ascender especially in caving or rock climbing is getting snagged on a rock or something while the motor is engaged at 10 per second it would pull out of your hand or whatever else it was fixed to before you realized you were snagged.

A lot of our rescues begin at the top, rap down to the subject, and then escort them back up to the top--usually in a Ferno-Washington litter or guide him up the rope, where he might have come from, orginially.

As for the speed of 10 feet per seconds, I do believe you can control that, just like you control your ascending up a rope. I surely don't believe you can climb at ten feet per second, now do you? And, getting the rope snagged, you'd be climbing just like you normally would, going nice and slow...and easy-like. Of course, this is probably more for an open pit, where you don't have hang-ups, but like the MAD device, it's something to check out. It's probably more for an arborist, but they've got to watch their tree limbs, just as you have to check your rock snags, right>

My inherently lazy side would love to acquire one of these gadgets but I think I'll wait until somebody invents something smaller, lighter, and much cheaper.

Found this version on the PBS web site....
http://www.pbs.org/kcet/wiredscience/video/327-atlas_powered_rope_ascender.html