under or over?

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Re: under or over?

Postby ian mckenzie » Jan 5, 2008 10:32 pm

ek wrote:I can't visualize how this would work. Do your kneepads go all around your knees with neoprene?


My kneepads are basically a neoprene tube with an armored front that you slide over your foot and up into position over your knee. But if you're using a cheapie kneepad with a front only and straps that go round the back of your leg, I don't see why you couldn't position them round the top of your foot if you needed to.
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Re: under or over?

Postby Evan G » Jan 5, 2008 11:08 pm

ian mckenzie wrote:Thing about this forum is, the US is such a big land mass that advice from one region may be irrelevant to the next.

:exactly: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :thanks:
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Re: under or over?

Postby ek » Jan 5, 2008 11:19 pm

ian mckenzie wrote:My kneepads are basically a neoprene tube with an armored front that you slide over your foot and up into position over your knee. But if you're using a cheapie kneepad with a front only and straps that go round the back of your leg, I don't see why you couldn't position them round the top of your foot if you needed to.

Hmm...in my experience, cheaper kneepads tend either to go all around the knee (and in doing so impede movement considerably), or have poor straps, while more expensive knee pads tend to have better straps. I'm not sure how you'd hurt the back of your knee while caving.

I *could* position them around the top of my foot, but it wouldn't do any good because there would be somewhere around my ankle where the neoprene was not, and water would pour in there.

So instead I wear neoprene socks when I'm up against cold water.
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Re: under or over?

Postby ian mckenzie » Jan 6, 2008 1:27 am

ek wrote:Hmm...in my experience, cheaper kneepads tend either to go all around the knee (and in doing so impede movement considerably), or have poor straps, while more expensive knee pads tend to have better straps. I'm not sure how you'd hurt the back of your knee while caving.
Methinks we're talking eggs and oranges. My kneepads are purpose-built for caving, and are definitely in the 'more expensive' category. The fact that they are a sort-of tube design is not intended to protect the back of your knee (!), but intended to eliminate the need for straps. They are comfortable and effective. Wish I could find a pic to post.
ek wrote:I *could* position them around the top of my foot, but it wouldn't do any good because there would be somewhere around my ankle where the neoprene was not, and water would pour in there.
Well, any port in a storm, I guess. Of course pulled-down kneepads are not waterproof gaiters, but they will do in a pinch if splashing thru a pool or stomping down a snowy mountainside, and the alternative is to do nothing.
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Re: under or over?

Postby ian mckenzie » Jan 6, 2008 1:30 am

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Re: under or over?

Postby Amocholes » Jan 6, 2008 4:34 am

I wear mine under. They are basically an elastic tube with a pad across the knee. They seldom if ever require adjustment. My coveralls are by Lost Creek and have a large pocket on each knee. As additional padding I have 1/2" closed cell foam (an old backpacking pad) cut to fit the pockets. This seems to work very well for me. I've been using the same method since I bought the coveralls in 1999.
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Re: under or over?

Postby NZcaver » Jan 7, 2008 8:42 pm

Evan wrote:Over, kneepads are cheaper than oversuits.

The one thing I love to do when I get out of a cave is get my kneepads OFF as fast as possible. Hiking in kneepads can sometimes be more painful than crawling. I had gypsum under my pads once and didn't feel it till the next day, you can imagine.....

Add one more for "over" - I also agree with Evan. :exactly:

Other than brief experimentation, I've always worn my pads on the outside. My standard caving uniforms are a Meander suit with long Bomber Gear pads (cooler climates), cargo pants and hard-cap construction kneepads (warm climate lava tubes), and shorts with tights/thin polyprop and my long Bombers (warm climate limestone/gypsum).

Choose your kneepads and clothing carefully! I've found that some hard-cap kneepads with the "sock" type design can bunch up your pants underneath and cause nasty rubbing at the back of the knees. I also had the same problem with regular kneepads a few times, until I figured out that my wearing an old pair of worn-out polyprops under my suit was a dumb idea - they were surprisingly abrasive.

And yes, hiking in kneepads can be a pain too. I usually slide my Bombers to the outside of my legs and let them slip down a little. Much more comfortable for hiking, and much quicker/easier than whipping them off and on.
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Re: under or over?

Postby Kevin Bruff » Jan 20, 2008 4:42 pm

i have worn them both under and over and i like wearing mine over the suit now. its really hard to adjust them when they are worn under the suit. plus as said before knee pads are alot cheaper than caving suits
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Re: under or over?

Postby caverdan » Jan 20, 2008 7:04 pm

If you folks really want to get some great knee pads, then take a look at these. http://www.theonlygear.com/products/caving.html
They are all the rage here in Colorado. Made by cavers.....for cavers......very robust. Possibly the best knee pads on the market to date. I have 50 plus caving trips on mine and they show hardly any wear. ( They don't call it Crawlorado for nothing :shock: ) These things put the old bomber knee pads to shame.
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Re: under or over?

Postby Kevin Bruff » Jan 20, 2008 7:38 pm

those things look pretty nice. will anyone be selling these at SERA/VAR in june?
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Re: under or over?

Postby NZcaver » Jan 20, 2008 7:42 pm

caverdan wrote:If you folks really want to get some great knee pads, then take a look at these. http://www.theonlygear.com/products/caving.html
They are all the rage here in Colorado. Made by cavers.....for cavers......very robust. Possibly the best knee pads on the market to date. I have 50 plus caving trips on mine and they show hardly any wear. ( They don't call it Crawlorado for nothing :shock: ) These things put the old bomber knee pads to shame.

Somebody just sent a link to the local grotto about these last week, and asked that they be promoted to members.

Nice, but I don't much like the look of the big plastic fastex buckles. But hey, if they work it's all good. Those pads sure aren't cheap compared with my $25 long bombers... but if somebody gave me a pair to try out I wouldn't say no. :big grin:
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Re: under or over?

Postby Andy Shoun » Jan 21, 2008 10:48 am

I go under. I use a soft, cheep (Harbor Freight $6/pair) neopreen knee pads with velcro fasteners. Going under the pads stay in place and because they are soft they are really most comfortable. My codura pants are made with sleeves to hold a pad, but the pads twist around and somtimes are not where I want them. I tried putting a hard capped pad under a different pair of pants and ended up cutting the knees badly, it does not seem to be an issue with soft knee pads because the pants and pads are both flexible and don't cut and tear as much. In the end my system provides a minimum of bruise protection, but it works for me.
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Re: under or over?

Postby MUD » Jan 21, 2008 11:36 am

I have a custom built suit and ma pads are built right in...elbows too! :kewl: When ya build yer own suit ya can put the pads wherever ya like! :wink:
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Re: under or over?

Postby Wormster » Jan 24, 2008 11:53 am

Like most folk - over,

this allows them to be slid down over my wellingtons when walking to and from the cave ,and, also better adjustment when underground.

kneepads are cheaper then oversuits.
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