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Posted: **Mar 17, 2008 6:57 pm**

Squirrel Girl wrote:
Mark620 wrote:
NZcaver wrote:Why?

(I'm just asking - not necessarily disagreeing.)

I will only reply to this by PM
I had not better see anyone post the answer in the open forum.
PM sent

What's going on? You're certainly welcome to have private views you don't want posted publicly, but if you post up *publicly* and emphatically that something is a certain way, then decline to provide any reasoning, it looks kinda odd and begs questioning.

What gives?

I agree with Barbara. You posted emphatically that they should not be in carry-on luggage. Since there apparently isn't an airline ban of this why is it a bad idea? :huh:

If it is really a bad idea I would think that you would want to educate others as to why it is a bad idea.

I couldn't help but note that Mark 620 lists his location as "secret cave" . . . I guess he just likes to keep secrets. :grin:

Posted: **Mar 17, 2008 7:45 pm**

I did not want to post this publicly - You could have asked...
As so I break my own warning..........
My post is related to this:
A few lithium batteries can be used by a terrorist to kill a plane load of people.
............................With no way to escape the EXTREMELY TOXIC fumes and resulting fires........................................

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/sho ... tcount=252
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/sho ... p?t=124776

I live within a 3 min walk from Secret Cave - check the TN cave list.

Posted: **Mar 18, 2008 6:06 am**

Mark620 wrote:A few lithium batteries can be used by a terrorist to kill a plane load of people.
............................With no way to escape the EXTREMELY TOXIC fumes and resulting fires........................................

There are lots of ways to create toxic fumes in an enclosed space. I can think of easier ways than batteries.

However, on the subject of batteries... NiMH make truly awful fumes when they burn, too. Which I unfortunately have seen happen. :whistle:

Which is why, I foresee the day will come when we all are strip searched--and probably bodily cavities searched too before getting on an airplane.

BTW, are the O2 masks of no use to provide breathing in an emergency?

Posted: **Mar 18, 2008 6:39 am**

Squirrel Girl wrote:There are lots of ways to create toxic fumes in an enclosed space. I can think of easier ways than batteries.

Tey are easy to get onto the plane.

Squirrel Girl wrote:BTW, are the O2 masks of no use to provide breathing in an emergency?

They only increase the O2 in the air and you would still get some of the toxic gas - They are not the same as a full respirator - not even close.
They would increase the intensity of a fire too. They don't have enough capacity - about 5-10 min? to get on the ground and out of the plane.

Posted: **Mar 18, 2008 9:45 am**

So, does this mean that the fumes from accidentally exploded lithium batteries in enclosed spaces in caves is something to be concerned about?

Posted: **Mar 18, 2008 11:20 am**

ek wrote:So, does this mean that the fumes from accidentally exploded lithium batteries in enclosed spaces in caves is something to be concerned about?

YES

Posted: **Mar 18, 2008 4:02 pm**

Mark620 wrote:
I live within a 3 min walk from Secret Cave - check the TN cave list.

Makes sense

Posted: **Mar 18, 2008 5:45 pm**

Squirrel Girl wrote:BTW, are the O2 masks of no use to provide breathing in an emergency?

I was talking to someone about the O2 on airplanes...
Recently a passenger needed O2 but all Three O2
tanks on the plane were empty.... :yikes:

Posted: **Mar 19, 2008 3:37 am**

Mark620 wrote:
Squirrel Girl wrote:BTW, are the O2 masks of no use to provide breathing in an emergency?

I was talking to someone about the O2 on airplanes...
Recently a passenger needed O2 but all Three O2
tanks on the plane were empty....

I believe those were separate, portable oxygen bottles, not the aircraft's emergency system. Those are an all or nothing system. It can't be triggered without turning it on to the entire plane. The pilots had better have a damn good reason to do so since the plane will be grounded until the system is recharged and the O2 boxes replaced. The masks can't just be repacked into the overhead and the bottle recharged.

Posted: **Mar 19, 2008 5:21 am**

Amocholes wrote:I believe those were separate, portable oxygen bottles, not the aircraft's emergency system. Those are an all or nothing system. It can't be triggered without turning it on to the entire plane. The pilots had better have a damn good reason to do so since the plane will be grounded until the system is recharged and the O2 boxes replaced. The masks can't just be repacked into the overhead and the bottle recharged.

Yes, I also believe those were separate O2 bottles. But did you hear the whole story??? I paid attention as it was American Airlines, and I had tickets on AA and was in Carlbad at the thime.

A lady has trouble breathing. Her cousin (or whatever relative) begs the flight attendants for O2. The lady is complaining she can't breathe. The flight attendants say, "No." Finally realize, maybe this is serious, and maybe it's OK to give her O2. The bottles are empty. The lady dies. They try to revive her, but the defibrillator doesn't work either. They move her body into the aisle of 1st class with a sheet over it.

Can you smell lawsuit in the air?

Posted: **Mar 19, 2008 5:27 am**

Amocholes wrote:.... the aircraft's emergency system. Those are an all or nothing system. It can't be triggered without turning it on to the entire plane. The pilots had better have a damn good reason to do so since the plane will be grounded until the system is recharged and the O2 boxes replaced. The masks can't just be repacked into the overhead and the bottle recharged.

My question is "Will the overhead O2 masks keep people alive until the plane can make an emergency landing?"

When I took H2S training many years ago, we had emergency air/O2 (I don't remember now), kits. You put a plastic bad over your head. If you tried to save a partner by pulling his/her body away from the H2S, you'd over breathe your bag. But if you just walked in it, you'd have enough air/O2 to get away safely. I'd think the airplane masks would be somewhat like that.

I don't know how long of an O2 supply they have (presuming it actually functions). I suspect it doesn't last long at all. Would it last long enough to emergency land the plane?

Posted: **Mar 19, 2008 6:38 am**

Squirrel Girl wrote:I don't know how long of an O2 supply they have (presuming it actually functions). I suspect it doesn't last long at all. Would it last long enough to emergency land the plane?

The O2 system is designed for use when depressurization of the cabin occurs and lasts long enough for the pilot to make an emergency descent.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_oxygen_system

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